Complex Hand Problem - Pre Flop - Small Blind

[Harry Demetriou]

I'd pass as i know that one of my 8's is dead as i've already called with an 8 on the cut off........

Passing becasue you NOW know an 8 is dead is not a valid reason here.

Play it as though you know absolutely nothing about the other holdings and players except for their stack sizes.

[matt674]

Passing becasue you NOW know an 8 is dead is not a valid reason here.

Play it as though you know absolutely nothing about the other holdings and players except for their stack sizes.

i know thats why i elaborated on a proper reason in a later post

[Bongo]

I don't think I could resist 15-1 odds in the SB so I would call.

I wouldn't like to raise with this without having a bit more information on the rest of the table.

[TightEnd]

I don't think I could resist 15-1 odds in the SB so I would call.

I wouldn't like to raise with this without having a bit more information on the rest of the table.

yes but you know the button only has half a hand, because he's limped in position when small stack....he's raising with any decent pair, premium hand

so if you've raise you've only realistically got the UTG+1 to worry about...the rest, by limping, have given the strength of their hands away

Yes it has risks, but I like the raise to 20k here ( and I'm not a player who'd actually do it!!) , dumping if re-raised by UTG+1 and may be pushing on a favourable flop if its me and UTG+1 only post flop

[matt674]

 but I like the raise to 20k here ( and I'm not a player who'd actually do it!!)

How can you say you like it but you would never do it?

[TightEnd]

because I am braver when analysing.

It's not inconsistent.

[matt674]

because I am braver when analysing.

It's not inconsistent.

so have you not reckognized a flaw in your own game? if you can analyse a hand one way but when it actually comes to acting it out why can you not have the courage of your convictions to go with your beliefs? if you believe certain moves will have a +ev in the long run then go for it if you believe that the same certain move has a -ev in the long run then you are right to pass.

Post edit comments: Apologies TE, i wrote this post just as i was finishing up at work and as i was driving home realised that it may have sounded overly critical of your game which is not how it was meant. As many people have probably read it i feel its probably wrong to just amend my original post and so i'll put my post edit comments underneath. All i was trying to understand is how you can be braver when posting on a forum but not at the table. when i sit at a tournament table i want to be playing my "a-game" which is the game that i believe will get me the highest possible place in the tourney. i'm constantly trying to come up with new ways of trying to stay one step ahead of my opponents, some work and some dont - the ones that do i try to keep in my armoury for future reference, the ones that dont work i learn from my mistakes and try not to repeat them.

If you believe that by making a move will be more profitable for you in the long run then give it a shot.

[Karabiner]

Very interesting stuff Harry, and a real pleasure to have you posting regularly.

I would be sneaking a glance to my left here to see if BB is looking twitchy.

All being well it's simply an auto-call for me.

[TightEnd]

Matt, no offence was taken

and you are right about my tournament game as it goes, one tries to play one's A game but I, personally, have to overcome an innate cautiousness. By and large I have done this, but a steal raise here from the SB...Honestly? I'm not there yet.....

I am not actually sure the steal raise there is +EV, but I suspect it might be...I certainly think if I hit a flop there after putting half a bet in, I would hate to play that hand out of position and think I might end up doing more chips as the hand develops than if I try an unconventional steal there and then

the alternAtive is fold, which I think given the odds you are offered is -EV.

[Harry Demetriou]

I promise you all that this problem is not going to get any easier as this hand develop.

However by now you should all realize that the only hands you are going to be playing are the two already mentioned.

The in the sm blind and the in the cut off.

This small blind hand is similar to the cut off hand in some respects except that now you are getting greater immediate pot odds of 14/1 and even bigger implied odds and you only have the BB to act behind you before the flop. BUT you also have the disadvantage of being first to act from the flop onwards if you get to see it.

You should all of course be asking yourself too what the ideal flop for you would be with each of these hands and how likely you are to hit what you want bearing in mind the current odds and implied odds that you are getting from each position. Coupled with this you also need to be asking yourself what kinds of hands your opponents are holding but this will become more important when and if you get to see the flop as the big blind is yet to act after you not to mention the other players if you choose to raise.

NB Had you been holding 7 4 suited or otherwise and be called Brian Wilson the correct and CLEAR answer would be to go all in but then this is you and not Brian Wilson playing so you'll have to think of another way to play this;-)  and good luck tomorrow if you read this.

[DaMatrix]

Ok, last edit:

RAISE = 18%
CALL =  80%
FOLD = 2%

[matt674]

This is why in both my posts i would opt to fold both hands, the only flops that could hit a hand like 84suited will either not give you any action or have you putting your chips in drawing dead. With the 8-7 o/s all i have in the pot is my ante and so apart from a 4-5-6 flop or hitting a house or quads no other flop will make me think i'm in front meaning i'm going to have to pass to any raise and wasted 2000 chips

If i only had the option to either call or raise with the 84 suited then i would raise in the hope that i would drive out all the other marginal hands like 8-9 so that if i were lucky enough to hit a good flop like 5-6-7 then chances are i'm going to get paid for it.

[bundle]

now i am not the best player by far, but given the 14k pot for 1k more i'm going to call, i like the idea of a pot size raise to try take it down there or thin the field, but the button may well dump it all in, he's gotta be looking to double through sometime. maybe a weak play for most of you guys but i can get away from it easy enough

I CALL

[The Truth]

Raise to 50k

[snoopy1239]

You are a player in the small blind who has been taking lessons from the cut off seat for the last 9 months on tournament no limit holdem and you are very conscious of what he will think of any play you make and thats why you know what these two are holding now (after the event) but not at the time. (Not that this will make much difference to your play I hope).

It don't think you can take this into consideration, like you state, as you don't know how good the teacher is, what he has been teaching the student, or whether or not he will try to fool him by playing in the opposite way to what he has taught.