OK I think I'll move on to the next step in the thread:
Hand Analysis - The Flop - Small Blind
In reality you call from the small blind with your
and the big blind checks whcih means that you are now 6 handed and there is 15k in the pot.
But first a few further comments on the small blind options pre flop.
In this kind of situation I tend to call regardless of what I am holding in the small blind but I still look in the hope that I am going to find a genuine raising hand. You may ask why it needs to be genuine and I would say that it is because I have the disadvantage of position if anyone should subsequently call me.
It is likely that the Big Blind is going to check once you've put the 1000 in and so as you are getting 14/1 and huge implied odds from the others it's worth taking the risk that you hit a miracle flop but BEWARE you really do need to hit perfect.
Personally I can't see the merit in raising here although you may well have a good stealing opportunity pure and simply because you have to respect the first and second players in the pot and there is still the Big Blind who may have a big hand but maybe the main advantage to raising here could be that you lose less in the long run. What can you possibly hope to flop with this kind of hand?
? Really tough straight possibilities and the suited element is only worth a little because you have a few opponents. In essence you are playing an 8 high with a very weak kicker and you should remember that this is the reality of what you are holding.
If you flop bottom two pair anyone holding an overpair to the board or top pair can countefeit you and make a bigger two pair.
In this particular instance if you flop two eights for trips and a rival holds an 8 (not very likely I know but still possible) then you are going to be outkicked and probably go broke. With two fours on the flop you may well have a better kicker than a rival as they most likely (if holding a 4 also) would have a 45 or 46 suited or otherwise but they could also be holding an A4 suited as these are limping/calling for minimum bet type of hands.
If you flop a flush or flush draw it is not impossible with 4/5 opponents for someone else to make a bigger flush.
However unlikely these scenarios may seem they do happen from time to time but the key point here is that when they do happen despite them being unlikley it is going to be very difficult for you to get away from your hand and you are going to go broke or at the very least lose a lot of chips. (NB I haven't even touched upon the more numerous times when you will partially hit or the bulk of times when you miss completely).
NEVER forget reverse implied odds.
SO the raise is very likely out and the call is dangerous but what about folding?
I have already said I am calling here but know of one top class and super aggressive player who folds in this spot. He takes the view explained above that no matter what he flops he is going to be in a very tricky spot and he is basically taking precautionary measures by folding to prevent himslef from being placed in such difficult situations. After all they say that good poker is about making good decisions and as few mistakes as possible and by preventing yourself from having to make tough decisions you are lessening the cahnce of making a mistake.
I cannot fault his thinking but maybe there is also a hidden lesson here about super aggressiveness in that it is better to be this type of player in pots where there are fewer opponents than you find yourslef against here in the same way that it is easier to bluff into small pots or against 1/2 opponents than it is into big pots or against many opponents.
Plenty of food for though but on to the next step we must go but I hope you are all enjoying this
BTW AS Tikay goaded me into this where are his thoughts on how to play these hands? and where is Brian Wilson who is an expert on playing this type of hand?
Hand Analysis - The Flop - Small Blind