Should this player have to show ?

[dik9]

This is ok, but if after a minute they dont show their hand and they muck it, I then turn over the nuts then I am labled as "slowroller" which is wrong imo.

If you had the nuts, wouldn't you be making the last aggressive action?

Not if he's gone for a check-raise that hasn't quite gone according to plan.

If a check-raise hasn't gone to plan its a check check, in which case you follow the order from the button, but if you had the nuts in this situation it is "etiquette to show first"

[doubleup]

its a check check, in which case you follow the order from the button,

Incorrect sir - it is the last player to bet or raise in the hand.

[dik9]

Errrrrrrrrrmmmm, regardless of my thoughts on this, at DTD there is an order of showdown, last aggressive action shows first, in a check check situation however, left of the button shows first.

[doubleup]

Errrrrrrrrrmmmm, regardless of my thoughts on this, at DTD there is an order of showdown, last aggressive action shows first, in a check check situation however, left of the button shows first.

That is wrong and the managers of that establishment should be flogged. 

[dik9]

I don't agree sir,

If someone raised pre flop, action has then been checked on the flop, turn and river, makes that rule a mockery, the caller is not calling to see they are calling to remain eligable to win the pot, how is the dealer supposed to know who originally raised 3 streets ago?

[Simon Galloway]

I made the point earlier in this thread that 2 schools of thought exist on this - and hence the stalling.  Surely there is a realisation that both practices exist, and if they are the accepted rules for that cardroom, then they are right?  (even if they are daft, or plain wrong!)

If you are called, you show, if its checked down you reveal from the small blind seems to be the more widely held opinion and the easier to administer.

As for a player asking to see cards on the grounds of collusion, I think it was in a US cardplayer that I read a TD asked the player to explain his reasons why he thought they had colluded.  The player couldn't, and the TD refused the request.  Nice!

[doubleup]

I don't agree sir,

If someone raised pre flop, action has then been checked on the flop, turn and river, makes that rule a mockery, the caller is not calling to see they are calling to remain eligable to win the pot, how is the dealer supposed to know who originally raised 3 streets ago?

cos the dealer should be paying attention on pain of a flogging from their managers!

Just another symptom of the breakdown in society.


ps I'n not that bothered, but I am right.  The point is anyway that whatever method is chosen the dealer should turn to the appropriate person to showdown.  If another player shows a winning hand fine, but the whole process should be pretty much automatic and without any fannying about.

 

[dik9]

  The point is anyway that whatever method is chosen the dealer should turn to the appropriate person to showdown.  If another player shows a winning hand fine, but the whole process should be pretty much automatic and without any fannying about.

 

Totally agree

[Karabiner]

I remember being in a similar position in a £100 PLH game at The Vic and I believe that blonde "dealerfromhell" was dealing. Slight difference was that one player was allin.

After the river he instructed the player who was sat to the left of the button that it was his turn to show, and then on to the next. I always assumed afterwards that that was the accepted, and correct procedure, obviously wrongly

As someone mentioned earlier, a pro-active dealer speeds the game up.

[londonpokergirl]

Yes!

And the practice of trying to conceal one's hand at Showdown, in either Cash or Tourney, by waiting for the other to show & then mucking, should be deemed as unworthy conduct - almost everyone is doing it now, waiting for the other Player, & then quickly mucking.

Standards are dropping, & nobody cares, & folks get away with this antic 99 times out of 100. I'd have them Shot.

The "caller" Calls to SEE your Cards, &, win or lose, they have a right to see them, & thus, by default, BOTH sets of hands must be shown.

Getting all smart-arse & quickly mucking is as bad as farting in church.

I had exactly this same thing happen last night at DTD and it was deemed that its not enforceable by the dealer to ask the person who last bet to reveal their cards which is just maddening.  Last night me and a few others were getting more and more wound up by a chap who was doing all the betting then mucking his cards when it came to showdown.

I think that its up to the dealer to enforce the action of the player to table their cards after they've been called down for a showdown.  

I think this rule needs updating at DTD (please)  

[dik9]

 Last night me and a few others were getting more and more wound up by a chap who was doing all the betting then mucking his cards when it came to showdown.

That sounds like a dream, how can you be upset by this

[tikay]

I think we should ask the camel and robs' for their input, they seem knowledgeable on the subject.

I agree, though the perspective & Posts offered by Simon Galloway & dik9 have been particularly clear, concise & eloquent, as have many others, with the notably rambling & ranting exception of one's goodself.

A great debate, swerving from subject to subject, in true blonde style. Nice Thread, Karabiner. You are truly a Golden Oldie.

[ariston]

Lots of people getting mixed up between cash games and tourneys here. in a tourney if it goes check check after the river both hands should be shown, in a cash game its not neccesary.

As far as I am aware pretty much everywhere in the world you can muck your hand in a cash game if you want to and it is always considered bad ettiquette to ask to see the losers hand if he is trying to muck it. I have witnessed many arguments over this as it really is nothing more than a rubdown imo. I have witnessed people not in the pot asking to see a hand and it being shown when they have in fact tried to pass the winner and they have then been awarded the pot as the cards were still live. I have also seen many people table what they think is a losing hand to be informed its actually the winner. If anybody at the table notices a mistake being made and the cards are tabled they should speak up- its again an ettiquette/duty to the game situation.

[tikay]

Lots of people getting mixed up between cash games and tourneys here. in a tourney if it goes check check after the river both hands should be shown, in a cash game its not neccesary.

As far as I am aware pretty much everywhere in the world you can muck your hand in a cash game if you want to and it is always considered bad ettiquette to ask to see the losers hand if he is trying to muck it. I have witnessed many arguments over this as it really is nothing more than a rubdown imo. I have witnessed people not in the pot asking to see a hand and it being shown when they have in fact tried to pass the winner and they have then been awarded the pot as the cards were still live. I have also seen many people table what they think is a losing hand to be informed its actually the winner. If anybody at the table notices a mistake being made and the cards are tabled they should speak up- its again an ettiquette/duty to the game situation.

...but this misses a parallel point I made - WHY should it be different in Tourneys & Cash Games? 

[ifm]

I think we should ask the camel and robs' for their input, they seem knowledgeable on the subject.

I agree, though the perspective & Posts offered by Simon Galloway & dik9 have been particularly clear, concise & eloquent, as have many others, with the notably rambling & ranting exception of one's goodself.

A great debate, swerving from subject to subject, in true blonde style. Nice Thread, Karabiner. You are truly a Golden Oldie.

eh?