Complex Hand Analysis - THE FLOP - BACK TO THE SMALL BLIND

[Karabiner]

If you are going to call from the small blind with this hand what are you hoping to catch? You have flopped a flush draw (admittedly a weak one)- are you willing to give up on the 25k in the pot just like that? I would like an information reraise here making it 20k to go. This would give any of the other players chances to dump marginal holdings as you are the small blind and could hold anything.
Allin is not an option as the one of the main hands that can call you may have you drawing very thin (eg bigger flush draw).
I would not be able to say exactly what I would do without plenty of other information (who are the others limpers/checkers? How near to the bubble are we? what do you percieve others think of you? ), hell I may I have even led at this pot on a semibluff/stopngo. As far as the facts given I think allin is not an option and folding (for me anyway) is not an option, so somewhere between the 2 lol. We could go down the route of what ifs (what if my information raise gets reraised by the button, what if a streaker runs out from behind the bar and nicks your hole cards etc) but I was asked what I would do next- information raise. 

That is why I advocated a lead-out bet of 5k.

[Harry Demetriou]

I tell you some of the things I'm thinking of now in the small blind.

What's the button got?

Is this a steal from the button as he's last to act?

Why has he put 20% of his stack into the pot?

Why did I put that 1000 in from the small blind pre flop with this piece of shit in the first place?

How did I get myself in this spot? I should know better than to play bad cards.

Why didn't I just bet out on the flop?

If I call will I get to see the turn or will I be able to call any turn bet?

Is someone going to reraise behind me if I call?

Decisions! Decisions! Decisions!

I've got a headache......................................

Who said poker was a simple game :-(

[rivered]

i think the most important question for the SB is.... would you go all in if you hit the flush against another big stack?... you're far from the highest flush, and everyone has been limping...

[The Dundonian]

whats the odds on two people at the table having 2 hearts in the hole 80+/1?

[matt674]

Reraise another 40k. You have check-raised which is usually an indication of strength and made the amount the exact amount that the button is sat with indicating that you know you have him beat and that you want to get heads up with him. Hopefully this show of strength will force everyone else who has checked to pass allowing you to be heads up with the button.

If his hand isnt that strong then chances are he will pass as he has only invested 12k of his 50k and still has enough chips to play with if he folds. If he has flopped a big hand such as a set or maybe a higher flush draw then at least you still have outs........

[SupaMonkey]

Reraise another 40k. You have check-raised which is usually an indication of strength and made the amount the exact amount that the button is sat with indicating that you know you have him beat and that you want to get heads up with him. Hopefully this show of strength will force everyone else who has checked to pass allowing you to be heads up with the button.

If his hand isnt that strong then chances are he will pass as he has only invested 12k of his 50k and still has enough chips to play with if he folds. If he has flopped a big hand such as a set or maybe a higher flush draw then at least you still have outs........

What do you do if you get re-raised by someone who had planned to check-raise with a geniune hand?


I think the reverse implied odds here mean that your position is bashing you around the head with a sledgehammer.

If i reraise 10k (say) the button may take me all in if it is folded around to him even if he has a draw. He may not have the greatest draw but he may decide that this would be a good time for him to shove his stack in and hope. If he has a hand he is not going to lay it down now that there is 45k in the pot and he has 40k. Also, if i do not reraise his stack (or almost his stack) then he will be given the hope that he could reraise me and i may fold.

If i do reraise and make it 50k to go and i get called i am in a world crap because i won't know where i stand and i will be forced to bet out on the following card no matter what.

Basically for me, this seems like one of those hands you chase and end up losing your entire stack to and then go home cursing yourself for playing poorly.

So far the hand has cost you 2k and you were forced to put 1k of that in anyway. I would throw it away.

[ACE2M]

I'd dump it, i would have led out on the flop. I'd now be cursing myself for not leading out and then cheering right up when one of the others limpers check raises all in. I've lost so many promising positions by getting it wrong in this kind of situation i just tend to dump them now. For me the four more players to act is the crucial point here.

[wsopin07]

i'd think he's got one hand - he's on the nut flush draw, making a semi bluff bet to define his hand better and tempt other flush / str8 drawers in to the pot.  The bet is too small for him to have trips / and he prob doesn't have pair/two pair/trips as he's giving everyone else odds.  Either that or he's just a weak player and is trying to steal / probe bet with something like AQ/AJ.

Anyway, I fold now-  i'm the SB and i saw the flop for cheap, but everything is far too suspicious for my liking - lots of people round to reraise me, and I've put the bettor on a flush draw - if he's not on one, then someone else is i reckon due to so many checkers hoping for the free card.  i'll cut my very low losses and wait for a better hand....

why does this make him a weak player? He may be a strong player doing the right thing to get you to pass? If you play differently from the way others think you should play you have an advantage. I gave Barney Boatman 10 to 1 odds during the William Hill Grand Prix if he could tell me what 2 cards I help in my hand! I will offer that to anyone in a major comp at any time, I dont think players ever know what i hold! Is this good or bad ?

[wsopin07]

Reraise another 40k. You have check-raised which is usually an indication of strength and made the amount the exact amount that the button is sat with indicating that you know you have him beat and that you want to get heads up with him. Hopefully this show of strength will force everyone else who has checked to pass allowing you to be heads up with the button.

If his hand isnt that strong then chances are he will pass as he has only invested 12k of his 50k and still has enough chips to play with if he folds. If he has flopped a big hand such as a set or maybe a higher flush draw then at least you still have outs........

This would be my move, I like this alot!

[Karabiner]

So I guess that means that you would have checked on the flop too then Brian.

[matt674]

This would be my move, I like this alot!

Cool, starting to think like a WSOP bracelet winner - the signs are looking good.

all i got to do now is try and play like one........

[Harry Demetriou]

Of the pros surveyed about this stage of the hand most decided to pass whilst a couple reraised a decent amount figuring that the checking players were showing weakness and that the button had a reasonable percentage chance of holding a hand that would have to fold even though he was in the last postiion to act. They felt that anyone holding anything would have bet due to the nature of the board but alas not all players behave in the same way so you can never be sure.

However all agreed that they were not too happy here as the betting had now been re-opened and that there was a reasonable chance of one of the earlier players check raising. You also still have to worry about acting first on the turn out of position so if you are going to win this hand it is bettere to try and do it now or give up the hand completely. If you reraise and someone calls or re re raises you then you are going to have to get lucky and pray that someone else isn't holding something like two two hearts or even worse the suited king of hearts.

Calling wasn't really considered an option as if you were going to do that then it was felt that as most likely the heart wouldn't come up on the turn you would then be unlikely to see a river card.

But what does the button have?

Overall it was felt that he was likely to be holding something and that his chances of betting purely for stealing purposes even with him being last to act was extremely low but his exact holding was still difficult to ascertain.

So on we must go to the next stage and thread titled - Complex Hand Analysis - The Flop - CUT OFF AGAIN.