Deep (250bb) tricy spot HU.

[AlexMartin]

I dont play hu but table kinda died and im left hu with a real drooler. Overplays/overpays/overbets. Running at (somewhat reasonable actually) 25/16/2.3 over 200 odd hands.

On button i open to $8 w  ($500 stacks @ 1/2 remember)

Donk 3bets to $28 (covers me after donking some ppl earlier)

I raise to $79

He calls.


Flop 

Donk leads for $80. Best course of action is....................?

[action man]

just fkin shib it in m8

[AlexMartin]

just fkin shib it in m8

u reckon? or is flatting and jamming any non-diamond brick on turn better?

[action man]

dunno mate your loads better at cash than me, your unlucky if he has your pair beat and your flush draw counterfeited.

[lucky_scrote]

Friction burns on the felt, GET IT IN

[mondatoo]

  when he calls ur all in wth ad4 and rivers u

[totalise]

I'd hit him with the min-raise, if you ship it in, it might give him a reason to fold a hell of a lot of hands that you have absolutely crushed, whereas the min-raise, against players like this, is like a red-rag to a bull. Your pair+flush draw absolutely crushes his pair+flushdraw range, you dont want him to fold those hands, and if he has the naked hes just gonna get that crap in anyways, and if he has a pair with no diamond, hes drawing ridiculously thin, so its not a spot where you want to try and get him to fold, because his range constitutes so many hands that you want in on the flop..... and i think the min-raise (again, only against this type of opponent) does the best job of tempting him to get his money in the pot.

[boldie]

I'd hit him with the min-raise, if you ship it in, it might give him a reason to fold a hell of a lot of hands that you have absolutely crushed, whereas the min-raise, against players like this, is like a red-rag to a bull. Your pair+flush draw absolutely crushes his pair+flushdraw range, you dont want him to fold those hands, and if he has the naked hes just gonna get that crap in anyways, and if he has a pair with no diamond, hes drawing ridiculously thin, so its not a spot where you want to try and get him to fold, because his range constitutes so many hands that you want in on the flop..... and i think the min-raise (again, only against this type of opponent) does the best job of tempting him to get his money in the pot.

agree with this..min raise or bet 200...get them chips in.

[AlexMartin]

give me a range that villain can have that we are crushing when we get it in on the flop. Its a 4bet pot preflop, hes a donk, but not a b@tfuck.

[WSOPaduki]

I don't like this spot at all.

It's usually a case of either going to war on the flop and shoving it all in, or passing and waiting for a better opportunity.

Flat calling and seeing what he does on the turn is normally the route people go, but if he's got any sense, he's going to give you another big decision on the turn. If a diamond comes, you're going to convince yourself he's got the ace. If no diamond comes, you'll convince yourself that he's already beating you.

The fact that you've 4 bet pf and he still wants to see a flop out of position is quite worrying. Again from my own experiences, people who are determined to see a flop in this situation either have AK or pocket pairs 10 up, even HU.

If he's got the ace of diamonds, he's not passing. If he's got pocket 10's he's never passing. If he's got pocket jacks, queens or kings without a diamond, then a shove on the flop will put him in the situation you're in, and will also give him reason to beleive he's crushed. Taking a free card off and hoping it's not a diamond then shoving might be what he needs to see, if he's got a set or overpair, so you're helping him, and if a diamond comes it could scare both of you.

He could also be setting the trap with aces, hoping to catch an 8 / 9  high flop and stack you, knowing that you're 4 bet is usually going to be a big pp.if he's done this and has got the ace of diamonds, well you know the result.

Anyway. My answer would be shove on flop or pass. If you're unlucky enough to have walked in to queens, kings, or aces with a diamond then so be it. There's already over $240 in the pot and i'd be happy for him to pass to a shove, and get on with the next hand.

[lucky_scrote]

give me a range that villain can have that we are crushing when we get it in on the flop. Its a 4bet pot preflop, hes a donk, but not a b@tfuck.

He can have any pocket pair with a diamond, any high cards with a diamond or a plain A10. You are ahead of his range, with the pot as big as it is you are forced to get it in.

Put it this way, even if he has a set (I can't put him on a big flush as I can't see him betting flop) then you have 11 outs on the turn and 10 on the river.

[AlexMartin]

I don't like this spot at all.

It's usually a case of either going to war on the flop and shoving it all in, or passing and waiting for a better opportunity.

Flat calling and seeing what he does on the turn is normally the route people go, but if he's got any sense, he's going to give you another big decision on the turn. If a diamond comes, you're going to convince yourself he's got the ace. If no diamond comes, you'll convince yourself that he's already beating you.

The fact that you've 4 bet pf and he still wants to see a flop out of position is quite worrying. Again from my own experiences, people who are determined to see a flop in this situation either have AK or pocket pairs 10 up, even HU.

If he's got the ace of diamonds, he's not passing. If he's got pocket 10's he's never passing. If he's got pocket jacks, queens or kings without a diamond, then a shove on the flop will put him in the situation you're in, and will also give him reason to beleive he's crushed. Taking a free card off and hoping it's not a diamond then shoving might be what he needs to see, if he's got a set or overpair, so you're helping him, and if a diamond comes it could scare both of you.

He could also be setting the trap with aces, hoping to catch an 8 / 9  high flop and stack you, knowing that you're 4 bet is usually going to be a big pp.if he's done this and has got the ace of diamonds, well you know the result.

Anyway. My answer would be shove on flop or pass. If you're unlucky enough to have walked in to queens, kings, or aces with a diamond then so be it. There's already over $240 in the pot and i'd be happy for him to pass to a shove, and get on with the next hand.

yeah i would ordinarily argee with this with 100bb stacks, but deeper i wonder if its more optimal to flat call then jam a brick turn card.

give me a range that villain can have that we are crushing when we get it in on the flop. Its a 4bet pot preflop, hes a donk, but not a b@tfuck.

He can have any pocket pair with a diamond, any high cards with a diamond or a plain A10. You are ahead of his range, with the pot as big as it is you are forced to get it in.

Put it this way, even if he has a set (I can't put him on a big flush as I can't see him betting flop) then you have 11 outs on the turn and 10 on the river.

Think this range is a bit light for getting it in on the flop tbh. Any pp with a diamond? doubtful.

If he calls he has to have (minimum) imo.

 Ad10+, 1010+
 i.e he aint calling a 4bet pre with less than A10.

He aint gonna get it in with A10 no diamond for certain.

[alexross]

shooooooooooooooooove

[AlexMartin]

shooooooooooooooooove

yeah i did obv, but in hindsight i think flatting was better. He time-down called with    and turned the nuts fwiw.

[alexross]

shooooooooooooooooove

. He turned the nuts

well obv.!

can't believe you asked this q given that you are a coinflipping mentalist Alex lol. I guess you don't coinflip so much if you have a deep stack (useful info for me next time we play )

good call, ul. normal...