Petrol Prices - Are they to high - What can we do about it.

[boldie]

Tax aside the global price of a barrel is now $125 (brent) Its doubled over the period of this graph.

Retail margins are v v thin, but the squeeze on consumers is now so intense (rising costs, falling growth) that this stagflation I beleive will lead to social unrest.

Why is petrol and diesel so much cheaper in Luxembourg?

Because they are not taxed to the extremes that we are, i hate to say it but we should do what the Frenchies are doing and force this poxy government into giving us a break.
Surely we won't take much more of this?

devils advocate

if they were to reduce indirect taxation (petrol for example) it has to be clawed back from somewhere given the country is in debt

so higher Income tax? higher NI? fewer improvements to hospitals? schools? train less nurses? etc etc

Less overseas aid, concessions to the EU (we pay billions more than the French for example), stricter benefit systems/NH qualification criteria, reduce mp's pay, pull our troops out of Afganistan  etc. etc.
Just because Brown and his cronies tell you we need the taxation for home services doesn't make it true.

The French people pay roughly the same amount in tax as people in Brittain do. (Brittain has more indirect taxes) They have a good benefits system, they have an NHS that works, and their benefit system isn't completely messed up and people generally don't have a massive debt there.
Why can the French do what Brittain can't?

It's not about overseas aid...overseas aid is money well spent. (Those people tend to need it a hell of a lot more than we do.) Or consessions to the EU..(I am of the "either shit and join or get off the pot completely" opinion or get

It's about an inept govt that spends Billions on failed IT systems, public transport, faith schools, consultants and admins in the NHS, Trident and PFI initiatives etc. Cut all that shit out and you'd be amazed how much money would be left.


http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=277 is the UK debt..not all that much and could fairly easily be dealt with.

[Graham C]

cos France is bigger and connected to the rest of Europe?

[kinboshi]

Yes, petrol sells for more than it ever has, yet independent petrol stations can't afford to stay open and are closing at an ever increasing rate.

avg margin on retail petrol sales is around the 1p/l mark. when I was running garages selling 7,000 l/daythe fuel sales didn't provide enough profit to cover wages for a single cashier on min wage. the only reason to run a petrol forecourt nowadays is to attract footfall through your shop.

Why does BP charge 120p a litre near me, when Sainsbury's (using BP fuels) only charge 110p a litre?

(I say only, but it's relative)

loss leader. while not knowing how busy the place is it's highly unlikely that they sell more than about 12,000l/day. at 9p/l loss (the 10p price difference-the 1p profit the BP is making) they've only got to make just over £1,000/day extra from the customers that the petrol attracts into the supermarket.

also they will be involved in bunkering which allowed them to advance purchase from suppliers at a fixed rate at some point in the past so in a rising market they're always buying at a lower price than any independants who have to buy at the surrent market rate

Yes, I know why it's cheaper.  With supermarkets everywhere, why do we need the BP petrol stations selling petrol at 10p+ a litre more than the supermarkets?  It's not like your Shell or BP need the income from retail.

[Graham C]

According to Wiki, the French pay a lot more, we're quite low in the scheme of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I'm off to Ireland, it's no wonder lots of the multinational organisations that were based in the UK buggered off over there!

[kinboshi]

According to Wiki, the French pay a lot more, we're quite low in the scheme of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I'm off to Ireland, it's no wonder lots of the multinational organisations that were based in the UK buggered off over there!

Can you take Ironside with you, just in case he doesn't move to France?

[tikay]

Quoted from a group on Facebook

Take the time to at least read this, then, see what you think and pass it on if you agree with it.
We are hitting 106.9 p a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying £1.10 a litre.
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain
day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more
of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
really work.
Please read it and join in!
Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned
us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take
aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market
place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each
day, we consumers need to take
action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come
down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their
Petrol! We can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two
biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.
If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to
reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other
companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need
to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's
really simple to do!!
Now, don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll
explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it
to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to
at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, until we reach around THREE MILLION consumers!
Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's
all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP)

Invite ten more people to this group within one day of joining, all 3 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next
8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference If this makes
sense to you, please pass this message on.
PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE
RANGE
It's easy to make this happen. Just invite your friends, and buy
your petrol at Asda,Tesco, Morrisons Jet etc.
i.e. boycott BP, Shell and Esso (and Sainsburys)would this work

And who exactly supplies Asda, Morrisions, & Tesco with Fuel? Correct. BP, Esso, Shell. As protests go, it's as blunt as a blunt thing.

I think we should worry less about the price of petrol - it's just money, & a luxury - & more about some of the dreadful World-disasters of the last month.

During the aftermath of the Burma Cyclone, the Daily Express & Daily Mail Headlines were about the £10 Tax affair & Gordon Brown. As sick as sick gets.

I don't agree actually. Not wishing to downplay at all the terrible natural disasters recently, but how is Petrol a luxury for the vast majority of Britons? Much of public transport is either too expensive or too unreliable for petrol for one's personal use to be anything other than a necessity.

It's a luxury, like Tellys, mobile 'phones, Computers, & washing machines. We can live without them, but we prefer not to. IMO, of course.

[Ironside]

Tax aside the global price of a barrel is now $125 (brent) Its doubled over the period of this graph.

Retail margins are v v thin, but the squeeze on consumers is now so intense (rising costs, falling growth) that this stagflation I beleive will lead to social unrest.

Why is petrol and diesel so much cheaper in Luxembourg?

Because they are not taxed to the extremes that we are, i hate to say it but we should do what the Frenchies are doing and force this poxy government into giving us a break.
Surely we won't take much more of this?

devils advocate

if they were to reduce indirect taxation (petrol for example) it has to be clawed back from somewhere given the country is in debt

so higher Income tax? higher NI? fewer improvements to hospitals? schools? train less nurses? etc etc

not spending 67 billion on updating Trident?

if they cut back on that i am off to france

Promise?

france is closer to the midlands
france would be safer as they would have a Nuclear deterant
oh and have you seen the women in france

yep its a promise

[TightEnd]

Quoted from a group on Facebook

Take the time to at least read this, then, see what you think and pass it on if you agree with it.
We are hitting 106.9 p a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying £1.10 a litre.
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain
day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more
of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
really work.
Please read it and join in!
Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned
us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take
aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market
place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each
day, we consumers need to take
action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come
down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their
Petrol! We can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two
biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.
If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to
reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other
companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need
to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's
really simple to do!!
Now, don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll
explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it
to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to
at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, until we reach around THREE MILLION consumers!
Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's
all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP)

Invite ten more people to this group within one day of joining, all 3 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next
8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference If this makes
sense to you, please pass this message on.
PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE
RANGE
It's easy to make this happen. Just invite your friends, and buy
your petrol at Asda,Tesco, Morrisons Jet etc.
i.e. boycott BP, Shell and Esso (and Sainsburys)would this work

And who exactly supplies Asda, Morrisions, & Tesco with Fuel? Correct. BP, Esso, Shell. As protests go, it's as blunt as a blunt thing.

I think we should worry less about the price of petrol - it's just money, & a luxury - & more about some of the dreadful World-disasters of the last month.

During the aftermath of the Burma Cyclone, the Daily Express & Daily Mail Headlines were about the £10 Tax affair & Gordon Brown. As sick as sick gets.

I don't agree actually. Not wishing to downplay at all the terrible natural disasters recently, but how is Petrol a luxury for the vast majority of Britons? Much of public transport is either too expensive or too unreliable for petrol for one's personal use to be anything other than a necessity.

It's a luxury, like Tellys, mobile 'phones, Computers, & washing machines. We can live without them, but we prefer not to. IMO, of course.

all the others you quote are luxuries, clearly. Petrol? different I would contend, for most of us. IMO only!

[boldie]

cos France is bigger and connected to the rest of Europe?

do you really think that that's why they have the systems pretty much sorted from a welfare point of view? I think it has more to do with the French attitude for not standing for bullshit or getting ripped off by their govt. They let the govt know by protesting that they don't like what the govt is doing..and if the govt doesn't listen they vote them out.
 Here people protest about a war, the govt ignores them and people then keep the govt in power. People seem to care more about John Prescott banging his secretary and having 2 Jags than about the billions of pounds spent on a failed IT system in the NHS that could have been spent on nurses and doctors.
Don't think the politicians here don't realise that the British tend to be a nation of moaners rather than people who take action against their govt, in fact they count on it. But now that the price of fuel and food is going up and everyone finds  out that .."actually honey, we're broke as we have a 300k debt and a 50k house" there might be a change in that attitude..

[Graham C]

According to Wiki, the French pay a lot more, we're quite low in the scheme of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I'm off to Ireland, it's no wonder lots of the multinational organisations that were based in the UK buggered off over there!

Can you take Ironside with you, just in case he doesn't move to France?

Not a chance, Ireland is my backup in case he doesn't

[kinboshi]

According to Wiki, the French pay a lot more, we're quite low in the scheme of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I'm off to Ireland, it's no wonder lots of the multinational organisations that were based in the UK buggered off over there!

Can you take Ironside with you, just in case he doesn't move to France?

Not a chance, Ireland is my backup in case he doesn't

I'll carry your luggage.

[boldie]

According to Wiki, the French pay a lot more, we're quite low in the scheme of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

I'm off to Ireland, it's no wonder lots of the multinational organisations that were based in the UK buggered off over there!

yeah..that's correct and you're making the classic mistake Brown and Blair want you to make...you're only looking at income tax and direct taxes. The nr of stealth taxes Brown has introduced is ridiculous.

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/17989/the-one-good-reason-to-hope-gordon-brown-becomes-pm.html sums it up rather nicely.

[tikay]

Quoted from a group on Facebook

Take the time to at least read this, then, see what you think and pass it on if you agree with it.
We are hitting 106.9 p a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying £1.10 a litre.
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain
day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more
of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
really work.
Please read it and join in!
Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned
us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take
aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market
place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each
day, we consumers need to take
action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come
down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their
Petrol! We can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two
biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.
If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to
reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other
companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need
to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's
really simple to do!!
Now, don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll
explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it
to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to
at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, until we reach around THREE MILLION consumers!
Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's
all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP)

Invite ten more people to this group within one day of joining, all 3 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next
8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference If this makes
sense to you, please pass this message on.
PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE
RANGE
It's easy to make this happen. Just invite your friends, and buy
your petrol at Asda,Tesco, Morrisons Jet etc.
i.e. boycott BP, Shell and Esso (and Sainsburys)would this work

And who exactly supplies Asda, Morrisions, & Tesco with Fuel? Correct. BP, Esso, Shell. As protests go, it's as blunt as a blunt thing.

I think we should worry less about the price of petrol - it's just money, & a luxury - & more about some of the dreadful World-disasters of the last month.

During the aftermath of the Burma Cyclone, the Daily Express & Daily Mail Headlines were about the £10 Tax affair & Gordon Brown. As sick as sick gets.

I don't agree actually. Not wishing to downplay at all the terrible natural disasters recently, but how is Petrol a luxury for the vast majority of Britons? Much of public transport is either too expensive or too unreliable for petrol for one's personal use to be anything other than a necessity.

It's a luxury, like Tellys, mobile 'phones, Computers, & washing machines. We can live without them, but we prefer not to. IMO, of course.

all the others you quote are luxuries, clearly. Petrol? different I would contend, for most of us. IMO only!

We would die without petrol, then? Or would life be just a bit more awkward than it is now?

Think of the money you'd save, if there were no petrol to buy.

[Graham C]

Think of the money you'd save, if there were no petrol to buy.

Take a while to get to places though

[gatso]

Think of the money you'd save, if there were no petrol to buy.

Take a while to get to places though

not if the places were really close