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Royal Flush
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2008, 06:34:17 PM » |
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under TDA rules in a comp you can give a hands missed penalty (ie miss two rounds meaning you lose 2 sets of blinds) and for a repeat offence you could be disqualified.
In cash games I dont see it being as big an issue really unless there is suspision of collusion ie squeezing out other players.
Dont forget we are all guilty of soft play when we check an allin opponent down. Betting into a dry pot is frowned upon whereas clear softplay/collusion when checking down an allin opponent is perfectly acceptable- why is that?
It's usually because it gives you the highest equity of any move, and that is the objective of the game, its a rare situation where you and your oppos both want the same thing to happen. |
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[19:44:40] Oracle: WE'RE ALL GOING ON A SPANISH HOLIDAY! TRIGGS STABLES SHIT!
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ariston
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2008, 06:56:45 PM » |
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I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?
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ariston
better lucky than good
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77dave
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2008, 07:00:55 PM » |
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If a floorman sees sofplay going on in a cash game why cant have give penalties. Sit out for 2 rounds.
it might not hurt them financially but if you keep enforcing it they will soon stop.
same goes for slowrolling and bad behaviour at the table.
Players get away with too much in cash games imo
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Mantis - I would like to thank 77dave for his more realistic take on things.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2008, 07:08:40 PM » |
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Who would want to soft-play? Completely ruins the game imo. Like holding hands with your mates as you all cross the finish line of the marathon together. Completely gay and not the right mentality for the game. People who think like this at the table ultimately lose to people who don't.
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Tikay - "He has a proven track record in business, he is articulate, intelligent, & presents his cases well"
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EvilPie
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2008, 07:34:19 PM » |
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Soft play in tournaments is just plain wrong. I've had it happen against me in a satellite where there was a blatant fold by a huge stack who let his mate win after he'd gone all in from the sb to big stack's bb. He was getting something like 8 to 1 to call and it was about 600 of his 30000.
It was wrong but it was understandable because thinking about it afterwards I wouldn't want to bust my mate out late stages in a satellite either.
There is an up side to soft play in raked cash games though. Basically it keeps more money at the table for everyone to win off them. If they never raise each other HU then the total rake will be lower and more cash stays on the table. If they play big pots between themselves they are just wasting money.
I would much rather be up against 2 guys soft playing than 2 guys who were full on colluding. By colluding I mean playing their 2 hands as one and giving signs etc. when one of them wants the pot building ready for a big reraise. Now that's what I call cheating!!
I don't think example one is understandable at all..if you don't want to bust your mate then you don't play with them. And soft play in a cash game does not keep more money on the table...it prevents them from reloading and therefore means there will be less money on the table. I could understand it. I didn't like it one bit but I understood why he'd done it. When it was bubble time I actually got the TD over on their blinds and told him to watch for the most blatant bit of chip passing ever if it folded round. Sure enough it folded round, SB says all in BB folds. TD noted their names but that was about it and it was all over a couple of hands later. It was sickening though because ultimately that bit of cheating affected the whole tournament!! Point 2 yes I was wrong. didn't think of it this way. My bad. |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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Grier78
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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2008, 04:46:27 PM » |
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I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?
Because betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless unless you are value betting, so its not colluding or soft play. If you flopped the nuts, however, and made no attempt to get any extra chips into the pot then this is slow playing and wrong. |
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boldie
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2008, 04:58:23 PM » |
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I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?
Because betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless unless you are value betting, so its not colluding or soft play. If you flopped the nuts, however, and made no attempt to get any extra chips into the pot then this is slow playing and wrong. oh boy..I can just hear loads of people going on tilt after that comment. This is one of the biggest myths in poker..betting into a dry side pot can also get someone else to fold the hand..after all "he wouldn't bet unless he had it" (as most people still think betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless) and leave you HU with a fella that could well have a worse hand than you. |
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Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
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mondatoo
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2008, 06:23:21 PM » |
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Played a home game on weds and there was a rite hoohah with the situation of 3 players in the pot and 1 being all in other player raised it (he hadn't actually noticed that 1 of them was all in although this doesn't matter) the other guy spent the next 10mins whingin about it(after this hand had finished) and we even stopped the game to discuss it.The guy who had raised it pre then bet the flop the other guy folded and was having a go at him and he showed AA but the guy still thought it was bad crack for him to push him out the pot when someone was all in and says he would never bet no matter what he had if there was someone all in(wondering if anyone can still follow this lol my wording is shit lol).I then explained to him i rivered the nuts in a situation like this a value bet the nuts totally expecting the other guy to realise this and fold but instead he went over the top all in on me after i told him this story his response was well why did u bet it when you thought he'd fold anyway lolololol (by the way he's actually decent player just think he's old school and doesn't like this)
Personally if i think i have the best hand on the flop i'll bet it to save having 2 hands possibly getting lucky on me if i was on a draw i wouldn't bet it and would check it down.
Just wondered what others thoughts on the etiquette side of this situation are?
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FuglyBaz
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2008, 10:06:12 PM » |
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Tbh I play more cash than tournaments. But for tournament etiquette I always like to play hands the way that they should be played. So if somebody is all in and theres a new sidepot, if I flop the absolute nuts then of course I'm going to slowplay the hand as I would if it was against two players with chips. If I have a hand that is vulnerable that I want to protect then I will bet out and try to win the pot. If the opponent wants to fold a better hand of the grounds of 'poor etiquette' then that's up to them, I won't complain about being HU vs one player.
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Grier78
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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2008, 10:46:40 AM » |
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I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?
Because betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless unless you are value betting, so its not colluding or soft play. If you flopped the nuts, however, and made no attempt to get any extra chips into the pot then this is slow playing and wrong. oh boy..I can just hear loads of people going on tilt after that comment. This is one of the biggest myths in poker..betting into a dry side pot can also get someone else to fold the hand..after all "he wouldn't bet unless he had it" (as most people still think betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless) and leave you HU with a fella that could well have a worse hand than you. Of course you could do this but its by no means a standard play, my point was that there are plenty of reasons to check down a dry side pot that are by no means implicit colluding between the players. IMO there are very few hard and fast rules in poker and each play is situational. |
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Jamier-Host
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« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2008, 11:12:30 AM » |
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I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?
It isn't. If there was any discussion about doing it then it should be penalised as well. |
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Side Project - making games for Amazon Alexa devices pressthe8.com |
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2008, 11:48:46 AM » |
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Posted by: mondatoo says he would never bet no matter what he had if there was someone all in What a thoroughly stupid thing to say. There are plenty of occasions when betting into a dry side pot is a good idea. You make the move that benefits YOU the most. If there are 50 players left winning the pot is much more important to you than trying to knock one oppo out by checking it down. People who say you should check it down usually have two overcards to the flop and want YOU to do what benefits THEM the most. Why on earth shouldn't the guy with Aces shut this character out of the hand?
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Tikay - "He has a proven track record in business, he is articulate, intelligent, & presents his cases well"
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taximan007 & Girgy85 & Celtic & Laxie - <3 Mantis
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mondatoo
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« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2008, 12:03:37 PM » |
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Posted by: mondatoo says he would never bet no matter what he had if there was someone all in What a thoroughly stupid thing to say. There are plenty of occasions when betting into a dry side pot is a good idea. You make the move that benefits YOU the most. If there are 50 players left winning the pot is much more important to you than trying to knock one oppo out by checking it down. People who say you should check it down usually have two overcards to the flop and want YOU to do what benefits THEM the most. Why on earth shouldn't the guy with Aces shut this character out of the hand? I agree he stated that no matter what his hand was he would check it down this is just daft imo if they guy all in had hardly any chips and the other 2 had big stacks then 1 had aces and 2 cards of the same suit came on the flop why should you check it down and give him the chance to hit his flush for no extra chips just coz some1 is all in. |
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2008, 07:48:41 PM » |
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the dry pot thing has been hyped up because so many donkeys bet with complete and utter air when an obviously solid player (who must have hit something) is allin. This tilts me so much.
eg solid allin, cal, cal. Flop AKQrainbow and J8o decides to shove. Pleeeeease fuck off.
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mondatoo
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« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2008, 10:21:28 PM » |
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the dry pot thing has been hyped up because so many donkeys bet with complete and utter air when an obviously solid player (who must have hit something) is allin. This tilts me so much.
eg solid allin, cal, cal. Flop AKQrainbow and J8o decides to shove. Pleeeeease fuck off.
It is a fukn joke when iiidiots do this so fukn stupid |
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