stepping down

[Claw75]

This is quite a difficult post for me to write, and I don't really know why I'm doing it or what I'm looking for.  I suspect I'm not the only one in this position though, and hopefully someone can give me some advice.

Until the end part of last year I never played poker that was outside my means - I've never had a bankroll as such or a lot of spare cash, and was perfectly happy playing $5 tournaments online and going out to play a £30 freezeout (self deal crapshoot) once a month to get my live fix.  Towards the end of the year I had a bit of spare cash around, and started popping up to Luton to play the bigger buy in games now and again.  Over the following months I started going to Luton more often, had a stab at the first equal chance monthly event, and played a few of the bigger tournaments at DTD.  I was loving playing the bigger games - such a refreshing change from the self-dealt crapshoots I was used to, and I was doing well out of them too.  However, poker aside, I was not well off financially any longer, and once I'd treated myself to a few luxury items the money I won from poker had to be used for bills etc.  Going back to the £30 self dealt crapshoots once a month just didn't appeal anymore - I tried a £20 rebuy at the Western one week and hated every minute of it - the table know-it-alls, the bickering, the rudeness.  I donked off purposefully and went home.

On the other hand, the bigger games at Luton with the friendly atmosphere had become like a drug to me.  I have had days where I've been almost physically itching to go and play poker.   When I play I love every minute of it, win or lose, until the next day when the realisation sinks in that I'm just getting myself into further trouble money-wise.  It's now been a couple of months since I had a touch (a small cash last week aside), so I've not had that extra money to help with the bills and I'm really struggling.  If I cut out the poker, I can make ends meet, just about, so it has to be done, but it feels like a part of me has died.

Reading this back it's clear to me that this has become somewhat of an addiction, and it's going to be a tough road ahead.  If anyone has any words of wisdom they'd be much appreciated.  Otherwise I'm hoping that having now made this a public post my pride will stop me turning up at games I can't afford (although I still intend to play some cheapo satellites to bigger games )

[action man]

a word of advice.


WIN

[cia260895]

build up your bankroll online then when you have enough for say 15/20 buy ins @ £50 then use that only for your live games.It was what i was hoping for until i had to cash out,so I'm back into building it up again.Then its onto the live scene.

Hear what your saying about the western self deal but for £30 on a friday nite it aint bad value even with all the goons that play in it (i pod to block em out??)

[SuffolkPunch]

Nice to see some honesty, so fair play to you. Do you play cash games at all? If so, if you have no bankroll why don't you try one of the staking sites like Bad Beat or Ed Giddens' one (forget its name) and play with their money?

[Colchester Kev]

brave post ... writing things down certainly helps to get things clearer in your own mind, respect to you for being honest enough to admit that you need to stop and re assess your situation.

BUT ... it doesnt have to mean stopping playing, it just means that you need to take stock and look at what you want from the game that you obviously have a passion for.

My advice for what its worth would be .. Have a week or 2 away from the game, yes I know thats hard and it certainly wont be easy ! ... but you need to clear your head and get back to where you were before, by before I mean playing poker for pure recreation and enjoyment, if you win a few quid, happy days... if you donk off its no big deal because you were only playing a small buy in comp that you could afford to lose.

Stick to "social poker" for a while, play a few blonde online comps, rediscover the fun part of the game and who knows, you certainly have the game to spin a few quid up online just through doing that ... and then you will be back on track and will see the bigger live comps as a one off ... or a special treat to yourself if you spin a few quid up.

Trust me, you are certainly not the only one on blonde who would dearly love to play decent buy in live comps but doesnt have the money to play them, there are a lot of us out here

Keep your chin up and get back to basics, play poker for fun and the rest will follow if its meant to be xx

[Graham C]

Working up a bankroll isn't so bad once you get your head around it.   

I know you didn't like it, but the Western have dealer dealt tables now and it seems to have improved the atmosphere a bit there and they're a bit cheaper than Luton.  They've also a 50p/£1 cash game now (certainly on Thursdays) which has to be value!

Whatever you do, I hope it works out for you.

Trust me, you are certainly not the only one on blonde who would dearly love to play decent buy in live comps but doesnt have the money to play them, there are a lot of us out here

+1

[Snatiramas]

Of course it is so tricky. On the one hand you want to play in the bigger games at Luton which is probably where your game should be IMHO and on the other you need the money.
Stop spending your bankroll is probably the tough love advice I can give you. I know, I know it is easy to say but you are not giving yourself a chance. Next wins you have, you have to put into bankroll. Take a small percentage into life and no pressies. Once the bank roll is nice and fat you will notice two things. You are playing with less fear and much more relaxed. Your results will spiral upwards. There will be variance. We all know that but you will be able to play the tournies that you want.............discipline unfortunately is the key. Play the smaller games....muller them and get your 3k together....cos that should be your roll then variance is unlikely to hurt you and wins after that you can put towards life. Thinking about it £1500 may do depending on success rates.

Me I am sticking to playing the open on Sky, cashed twice this week.........oh and most of the Luton fessie, maybe, possibly, probably. Now my fat counsellor might start asking lots of deep questions here but I think we might do that lot by pm if you want..........got to bounce girl. Get up and get going and don't beat yourself up. JFDI

[Tuffster]

Home games FTW.

Get a group of good eggs together and for a fiver and a few beers/nibbles you can get the same friendly/fun atmosphere of the "big" games without the expense.

You can even stick the stereo on and dance round the living room without giving TK a heart attack at Luton 

Not being a Luton-ite, can't say for them, but I'd be pretty sure you'd be missed. From my one meeting with you at Brighton. You are the sort of person that brings the fun into a poker tourney,

Take down the Dirty Dozen $2k jackpot and I'll see you at Luton!

 

[Claw75]

thanks guys.  

CIA - I hear what you're saying, but I really don't enjoy those games. I don't want to be plugged into an ipod when I'm playing poker, I want to enjoy the social side of the game too, with nice people.  I'd rather not play at all tbh.

Online cash - no can do. I am a donk.  full stop.  No self-respecting staking site would take me on, and rightly so!

I hear what you're saying Snat - I've sent you a PM.  Without going in to too much detail on here I'm too heavily in debt to be able to justify to myself having a bankroll of 'poker money' - it just seems so wrong.

I've just got to accept, I think, that in my current circumstances I can't play the poker I want to play.  There are things in my life that are far more important that need my attention - in 6, 7, whatever years I'll hopefully be in a postiion to jump back in - now just isn't the time

[jakally]

a word of advice.


WIN

Think long term.

If you want to stay in these games over an extended period, you need to either be financially well off, or a winning player - in these games.

Take stock of your game - if you think it is good enough then fine, work to get a roll together and have another go.
If not - do something about improving it.

GL.

(BTW, if you want to take another shot at a bigger comp I am sure you would get a good response on the staking board  )

[PocketLady]

Hey Claire,

I can really indentify with some of things you have said.  I've played poker about only about 4 times in the last few months purely because I know I have been letting my life slip in the months leading up to that.  When I had my Poker 6 result last summer it changed everything for me.  I hadn't been playing that long as it was, only about 9 months or so at the time.  The win had a huge effect on me.  Up until then the biggest tournament I had played was a couple of £100 freezeouts at the Western, and even that was a big thing for me then.  I was struggling by as a final year student, but after the Poker 6 I had more money than I'd ever had available to me, just sat in my bank account.  I finished my degree, but after than I just played poker.  Just because I could.  I would go down to my local casino and walk home most nights with lumps of cash shoved in my bag, to be hidden in a shoe when I got home.  To begin with I stuck to the smaller tournaments, just playing the £50 freezeouts at my local casino, but I'd had a taste of the big money and wanted more.  When I didn't manage to satellite in to a GUKPT I would start trying to scrape the money together, some of it I got staked for, but some of it was off my own back as well.  

Poker pretty much destroyed my relationship with someone who was very important to me.  I didn't do anything other than live and breath poker.  I was at the casino 6 nights a week, getting in at 6am every morning.  I'd get up at about 4pm and play online for a few hours before heading back to the casino for the night.  My family was worried about me, I hadn't seen any of my non-poker friends for months, and my relationship was dying.  And I didn't care.  

The good run wasn't to last though, and by Christmas I was nearly skint.  I had a small win which got me through the Christmas period and I managed to hang on in January and February.  In early March I had a decent touch when I won the crypto 20k gt, but by this point I was so worn down.  Even after this I kept losing.  They had started having cash games in my local casino, but the players were so bad, and the game so loose that you just had to have a hand.  Bluff and bottom pair calls you in a heartbeat.  The cardroom manager showed me my STT results, and it showed that out of all the players in the casino, I had won the most STTs, so I should have to stuck to that which I knew I could beat, but the appeal of the cash games was too much.  Later in March (or April?) I played the Ladies Poker Tour in Newcastle, and then Manchester GUKPT in the same week.  I took two different cars and broke down on the way to both, and got no where in the comps.  I then went down to my local the next week only to get my flopped top set smashed by a guy who hit runner runner quad 4's.  

I just thought, enough is enough.  Over the last three months I think I have played the local £10 crapshot twice, BB, and a £50 which I got staked for.  I'm going to do my teacher training in September and I've gone some way to sorting my life out.  I think that now, no matter how good a player you are, only some people have the discipline and the control to keep it together when they are losing but know they have to win to pay the bills.  I am not one of those people, at least at the moment.  If you are not playing poker for a living it should be something that you enjoy doing.  If you're not, and it's getting too stressful and it starts affecting your life then you know it's time to slow down.  On the occasions I have played poker over the last few months, even just playing £10 freezeouts, I have enjoyed it.  I've gone up to the casino and had a laugh with my friends, and it doesn't matter whether I win or lose.  I think if I were you I'd maybe had a break for a bit.  Once you've done that you'll find that you start to get a buzz again even just playing little tournaments, without the stress of knowing if you lose that the bills might not get paid.

Just my 2 cents worth anyway.

[DaveShoelace]

Some very interesting and honest posts here.

Just as an aside, it amazes me how many people play poker without a proper bankroll and ignoring the rules of bankroll management. I know a lot of good players who play with whatever spare cash they have, I know a lot of serious players who do the same and obviously we all know tons of 'professional' poker players who seemingly have never heard of it. There seem to be a lot of players who have a big tournament win and say something along the lines of 'now I have a bankroll' - what have they been doing before this? I also know a lot of players who use the term 'bankroll management' in inverted commas, as if it is some arty farty garlic bread concept that will never catch on.

Obviously bankroll management is an imaginary wall between money for poker and money for everything else, but for me its the most important and underrated skill in poker (alongside table selection and being really lucky)

Its not a criticism at all, as most of these players are recreational players, but being a bankroll nit myself I always assumed everyone else was too.

[RED-DOG]

These last two, (PocketLady and DaveShoelace) are probably the best poker posts I've read this year

[the sicilian]

Hi Claire

Great that you can be so honest with yourself and its always tough to have to let something you love doing go....but as a recreational player i suppose you have to put poker money under the heading of luxury money the same as going out for a meal etc etc....

Is there an amount a week you can set aside for luxury and treats or is it all used up with the week to week life expenses ?

As the others say the only real way is to either put aside say on a weekly basis so you can buy into say the £50 freeze out or build from lower stakes.

I've played with you and you have a good solid game that will reap a reasonable result for you in a given amount of time and from there you will have to try and build the ever elusive roll...unfortunately life is full of unexpected twists and at some point there always seems to be something that needs to be paid and you see the money just sitting there doing nothing to a degree and its too easy to use it.

I wish you all the best but i think you have cleared the hardest hurdle in the realisation of your OP. 

[GreekStein]

I've always been far far from a nit myself and this thread has made me want to give a little insight into what happened to me.

In my last year at School having just turned 18, a friend of mine told me about online bonus abuse playing blackjack. During the following half term we took it in turns to play thousands and thousands of hands to turn over our requirements and cash our our bonuses. Between us we literally played non stop for a week with one sleeping while the other was playing at times. At the end of this week we had made just over 3k, so £1500 each. When most of my friends were slaving away doing minimum wage work in that week for like one fifth of what I'd earnt this was big money for me. I continued to do these scams myself until the summer holidays hit when i literally did them using every family members card I could. I obviously had permission as my dad was explaining to them that we would make money as long as we were patient. I did it with cousins, uncles, friends...and when you're a greek thats a lot of people.

In short, in the 12 weeks before I was due to start uni I was going with £20k english in my bank account. A fair lump for a 18 year old. When I got there things were relatively normal going out getting pissed having a good time until the second term when everyone's student loan seem to have run dry and the going out died down. This is when I decided to start going to the casino and at first all I would play was the touch bet roulette. I was soon hooked and after going through about 13k in a few months I decided to rebuild the roll doing blackjack scams. I made a few grand back but could no longer bear the grind when money was much faster coming and going in the casino.

Poker seemed to be the balance I found but having no respect for money I decided not to play small ball like I should have and after playing only 2 tournies I bought myself into the £500 event at gala Nottingham and eventually came 11th/121. Being knocked out on the bubble after losing a big race to Chris Bruce (who at the time I thought was Julian- and then telling all my mates about the hand I played with the Will Hill pro lol donkaments) I truly got the bug. However by the time I learnt the game well enough to believe I had an edge I had already busted all my cash by playing far too high, against players who, at the time were much better than myself and also never staying away from house games.

In this time my uni course had been completely neglected and Nottingham Uni kicked me out - I didn't fail exams....i just didnt go to any. I had built a barrier to my close uni friends due to the different lifestyle choice I had made being in the casino all the time and then moving away and back home was the hardest thing I ever had to do. My dad was so close to kicking me out altogether but gave me another chance.

I had no choice but to stop all sorts of gambling. After a few months of moping around I got a great opportunity thanks to a family contact and have been working nearly 8 months doing really well. Its sure as hell not as fun as spending all my time playing poker but I guess for a lot of us for various different reasons poker has to take a backseat for a while. Some 10 months later and I reopened my account and started playing occasionally in the evenings and honestly quite a lot at weekends. After my initial £200 deposit and sticking to a 20 buy in system of bankroll management I have made just over £8k (GOD BLESS THE OMAHA DONKS) in 3 months. Everything just seems to be in place again and I believe the break helped me soo much.

I hope and believe for you a break is what's needed. Don't see it that you've lost a favourite hobby, but see it as a time to reflect and get things straight and hopefully like me, when you are ready to play again things couldn't be better.

gl