Call?

[david3103]

11 players left in a £10 freezeout (9 to final table, 3 paid)

blinds are 400/800

UTG calls (stack of c 16,000)
folds round to BB who checks (stack size 4,100)

Flop is   

BB checks
UTG holding  bets 1600
BB insta jams for an extra 2,500. BB has played three hands in the last 30 plus minutes, a shove with AA which moved him from under 2000 chips to just over 4000, a shove from the button with AQ which took the blinds, and a flat call from SB and a fold to the flop bet. He is tight.

What should UTG do?

[kinboshi]

When you bet the 1,600 what were planning to do if the other player called or raised?  If you are going to call - then you might as well put him all-in with your bet.

[TheChipPrince]

Yes, when making a bet here you should already know what your going to do if the BB provides any reisitance...

[david3103]

Aplogies,

I was the BB..
I had 

UTG obviously had no preset ideas of what he would do if/when I shoved. He's prone to stealing pots and I had checked with the clear intention of shoving to any bet

I was curious as to whether his call was justified

(or whether my shove was wrong?)

[TheChipPrince]

Shove is absolutely fine, so is the call, either way the money is probably all going in on the turn anyway, nh!

[kinboshi]

If UTG shoves pre-flop, you don't call do you? So he doesn't lose all those chips to you.

[TheChipPrince]

If UTG shoves pre-flop, you don't call do you? So he doesn't lose all those chips to you.

There is 11 left so the max on this table can be 6 players, UTG has 20 BB's, a standard raise perhaps rather than a shove?

[kinboshi]

If UTG shoves pre-flop, you don't call do you? So he doesn't lose all those chips to you.

There is 11 left so the max on this table can be 6 players, UTG has 20 BB's, a standard raise perhaps rather than a shove?

Yeah, my bad.  For some reason thought they were the only two in the hand. 

Played itself in that case.

[david3103]

I'm making a hash of this

My two main queries here were

a) Is calling with 33 against a tight player who has check shoved a reasonable move

and

b) was check shoving wise, or should I have just shoved straight off on the flop....


the turn   gave him far more reasons to call if I'd waited

and the river was  

It's not a 'poor me I got a bad beat' post.

I'd have folded my in his position -  so, if the call is justified, why is it?
His comment was 'got to be in it to win it' but.......

[TheChipPrince]

b) was check shoving wise, or should I have just shoved straight off on the flop....

Check shoving is 100% fine.   UTG has flat called, you have to think has has some sort of hand. So checking and allowing him to bet is exactly what you want and exactly what I do here...

I'd have folded my in his position -  so, if the call is justified, why is it?
His comment was 'got to be in it to win it' but.......

He had to call 2,500 more to win nearly 12,000, so he's getting a good price on his money, 4/1+.  If he puts you on any kind of draw, and thinks you might have 2 overcards he has to call, although your raise suggests you at least have a 4, if not a 6...  Its not the worst call by any means...

[Longy]

I think post flop is fine by both players, no point in bb leading with trips, just hopefully get a bet that pot commits utg and move it in. This is a good board for utg and with bb so short he just wants to be tsomething to get bb to fold, but knows he has to call if bb goes all in.

Pre flop limp by utg is the only thing I hate, he is too short too limp imo. The rest of the table is probably shorter than him given standard live crapshoots at this stage. Fold or raise, i like making it about 2200 in utg position.

[david3103]

I think post flop is fine by both players, no point in bb leading with trips, just hopefully get a bet that pot commits utg and move it in. This is a good board for utg and with bb so short he just wants to be tsomething to get bb to fold, but knows he has to call if bb goes all in.

Pre flop limp by utg is the only thing I hate, he is too short too limp imo. The rest of the table is probably shorter than him given standard live crapshoots at this stage. Fold or raise, i like making it about 2200 in utg position.

I wish it had been you playing it - any raise and I'm folding preflop and moving on to the next hand hoping for      :-)

[Royal Flush]

The reason you got knocked out was getting so short, why in earth do you only have 5BB?

[david3103]

The reason you got knocked out was getting so short, why in earth do you only have 5BB?

that's a whole different set of stories, how long have you got???

but not everyone who wins does so by a steady accumulation of chips, even if that is the preferred method :-) I'd been up and down over the course of the tourney but when we broke to two tables I got drawn at the one with about 30% of the total chips. I'd been down to 1800 and was just building back up nicely.. a win on this hand and I'm up to average stack.....

[DungBeetle]

hmm - a few interesting points in this one I think. 

Firstly, if I was the 33 guy UTG, seeing how short you were in the BB I'd be expecting you to shove virtually any 2 cards if I limped, so I'd probably pass UTG as my 16k stack is fine to wait for a better spot, as I'm going to be racing at best when I call your shove.  As the hand was played, your check raise shove was definitely the right move (although I'd have been all in pre-flop anyway with your stack making the post flop discussion academic).    After you've check raised, if I was the 33 guy, I'd think there was a decent chance you had a flush draw so I'd call.  UL how it worked out though.