Combating nutters in 3b pots

[AlexMartin]

Not really a single post, more of like a broad discussion (hopefully) on how to combat truly LAG players that keep F***ing with you in position. Anyone got like a single method they use that has great effects? I tend to just C/R them a tonne oop on flop (bloating the pot and letting them play near perfectly) or end up getting into ridiculous 4b spots preflop neither of which can be ideal.  I hate donking coz if they are any good they just float you/raise you and it generally leads to shitty spots where you have to (generally) do some more funky betting on the turn.

Anyone got a standard line for example...here?

villain is insanely aggro and always putting me under pressure preflop. Im sure this must be exploitable but 4betting pre seems kinda crazy (coz ill have to call a shove then with King high) and folding seems too weak.  26/18/3.4 with 3b of 8.9, squeeze of 12 and button pickup of 16.



Table Nitrogen 187 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Micxors ( $533.00 USD )
Seat 2: GreatGreek ( $995.75 USD )
Seat 3: Gabian ( $1094.28 USD )
Seat 4: SMOKES2MUCH ( $520.30 USD )
Seat 5: JammyJenny ( $1051.50 USD )
Seat 6: DUDLEY555 ( $0.00 USD )
GreatGreek posts small blind [$2.50 USD].
Gabian posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JammyJenny [  ]
SMOKES2MUCH folds
JammyJenny raises [$17.50 USD]
Micxors raises [$60.00 USD]
GreatGreek folds
Gabian folds
JammyJenny calls [$42.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
JammyJenny checks
Micxors bets [$95.62 USD]
JammyJenny raises [$991.50 USD]


Im also talking about more general examples where we dont have so much equity, like AJs on 23s10 boards (where neither of us likely has much of a hand, yet he has the initiative).

[MANTIS01]

Playing in an opposite style to your oppo is always a reasonable line to take. If you are playing a loose, aggressive maniac then I like being a rock. Too many people get emotional about having their blinds stolen and want to play back at these guys prematurely with nothing. If you drip feed some of your chips to the LAG he will get into a comfort zone with you, then just wait to c-call with a good hand you will get them back with interest.

[bolt pp]

Playing in an opposite style to your oppo is always a reasonable line to take.

Bit of an obvious answer and seems a bit too easy to say but it really is the best line.

Mantis makes a good point about becomging "emotional" in hands against oppo's of this nature but these really are the guys where you dont want to be thinking too much about "playing poker" against, rock up.

That being said the example you give against someone of this nature and their range makes your play seem o.k(and it does have tonnes of equity) but it all is a bit unnessarcery.

(before you shoot me down with the: "this aint 2005, we have to think a bit more" riposte, against this oppo, it might as well be and you should crack on as if)

[DaveShoelace]

Players like this I think you need to checkraise all in on any flop early in your dealings with them (oh wait, you just did). Most of the time they wont have hit, or at least hit hard enough to be able to call you. Unless they have a monster the one time you do it, it should stop them from fucking with you. Even if you do get called you will scare them/get your bigger hands paid off down the line.

Likewise it has a similar benefit to bet-call your pocket aces or flat with them to induce squeezes when they are at the table, after one or two of those you can usually see more flops against them.

I do know of a kid who is playing a 38/34 15%3bet style on Full Tilt at the moment and he is running the really aggressive midstakes games over at the moment. Fight fire with more fire, piss the highest, obviously very high variance but you wanna scare the shit out of players like these.

To be honest though, Id be switching seats if he was one or two to your left and nip the whole thing in the bud. Mind you the site you are playing on I guess you cant avoid him.

[AdamG]

tried ur tactic - worked a treat haha....

Game #7707484914: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/09/11 - 12:44:00 (UK)
Table "Jeffrey" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: mpeterox sits out
Seat 2: PorscheGT ($106.03 in chips)
Seat 3: Mic180126 ($32.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 ($21.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 ($109.56 in chips)
Seat 6: anaceupmy ($40.89 in chips)
Jimmmy001: posts small blind $0.50
anaceupmy: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to PorscheGT [ ]
PorscheGT: raises to $4
Mic180126: folds
Jupiter1: folds
Jimmmy001: raises to $14
anaceupmy: folds
PorscheGT: calls $10
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Jimmmy001: bets $20
PorscheGT: raises to $92.03 and is all-in
Jimmmy001: folds
Returned uncalled bets $72.03 to PorscheGT
PorscheGT: doesn't show hand
PorscheGT collected $66 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $69 Main pot $66 Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 2: PorscheGT collected $66
Seat 3: Mic180126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: anaceupmy (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[bolt pp]

tried ur tactic - worked a treat haha....

Game #7707484914: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/09/11 - 12:44:00 (UK)
Table "Jeffrey" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: mpeterox sits out
Seat 2: PorscheGT ($106.03 in chips)
Seat 3: Mic180126 ($32.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 ($21.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 ($109.56 in chips)
Seat 6: anaceupmy ($40.89 in chips)
Jimmmy001: posts small blind $0.50
anaceupmy: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to PorscheGT [ ]
PorscheGT: raises to $4
Mic180126: folds
Jupiter1: folds
Jimmmy001: raises to $14
anaceupmy: folds
PorscheGT: calls $10
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Jimmmy001: bets $20
PorscheGT: raises to $92.03 and is all-in
Jimmmy001: folds
Returned uncalled bets $72.03 to PorscheGT
PorscheGT: doesn't show hand
PorscheGT collected $66 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $69 Main pot $66 Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 2: PorscheGT collected $66
Seat 3: Mic180126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: anaceupmy (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

No, that's just shit

[AdamG]

tried ur tactic - worked a treat haha....

Game #7707484914: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/09/11 - 12:44:00 (UK)
Table "Jeffrey" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: mpeterox sits out
Seat 2: PorscheGT ($106.03 in chips)
Seat 3: Mic180126 ($32.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 ($21.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 ($109.56 in chips)
Seat 6: anaceupmy ($40.89 in chips)
Jimmmy001: posts small blind $0.50
anaceupmy: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to PorscheGT [ ]
PorscheGT: raises to $4
Mic180126: folds
Jupiter1: folds
Jimmmy001: raises to $14
anaceupmy: folds
PorscheGT: calls $10
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Jimmmy001: bets $20
PorscheGT: raises to $92.03 and is all-in
Jimmmy001: folds
Returned uncalled bets $72.03 to PorscheGT
PorscheGT: doesn't show hand
PorscheGT collected $66 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $69 Main pot $66 Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 2: PorscheGT collected $66
Seat 3: Mic180126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: anaceupmy (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

No, that's just shit

why is it?

he 3bets pre - im thinking he has hit none of that - therefore could only call with AKh.... or somewhere there abouts - which ive still got outs to...

so why is it?

[MANTIS01]

How do you actually fight fire with fire? People use that expression a lot and I don't know where it comes from. I prefer to fight fire with water. Professional firemen choose to fight fire with water as well, and those guys know what they're doing.

[AndrewT]

How do you actually fight fire with fire? People use that expression a lot and I don't know where it comes from. I prefer to fight fire with water. Professional firemen choose to fight fire with water as well, and those guys know what they're doing.

Getting 3-bet is like an oil fire though.

[MANTIS01]

Getting 3-bet is like an oil fire though.

I still wouldn't recommend fighting it with fire.

[AndrewT]

Getting 3-bet is like an oil fire though.

I still wouldn't recommend fighting it with fire.

Not on its own - 3-bets require a mixture of three critical elements.

[Royal Flush]

tried ur tactic - worked a treat haha....

Game #7707484914: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/09/11 - 12:44:00 (UK)
Table "Jeffrey" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: mpeterox sits out
Seat 2: PorscheGT ($106.03 in chips)
Seat 3: Mic180126 ($32.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 ($21.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 ($109.56 in chips)
Seat 6: anaceupmy ($40.89 in chips)
Jimmmy001: posts small blind $0.50
anaceupmy: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to PorscheGT [ ]
PorscheGT: raises to $4
Mic180126: folds
Jupiter1: folds
Jimmmy001: raises to $14
anaceupmy: folds
PorscheGT: calls $10
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Jimmmy001: bets $20
PorscheGT: raises to $92.03 and is all-in
Jimmmy001: folds
Returned uncalled bets $72.03 to PorscheGT
PorscheGT: doesn't show hand
PorscheGT collected $66 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $69 Main pot $66 Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 2: PorscheGT collected $66
Seat 3: Mic180126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: anaceupmy (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

No, that's just shit

lol beat me too it!!

[MereNovice]

How do you actually fight fire with fire? People use that expression a lot and I don't know where it comes from. I prefer to fight fire with water. Professional firemen choose to fight fire with water as well, and those guys know what they're doing.

I think I can be really helpful here. 

Does it come from the tactic that forest fire fighters use where they create a smaller, controlled, fire ahead of the main inferno to burn up the fuel (i.e. trees etc) before the inferno reaches that point? Therefore, the fire burns out for lack of fuel.

I don't think that this necessarily helps in the hand analysis, though, as I can't think of any analogous tactic in HE.

[AlexMartin]

[ ] evidence this is good strategy

[X] running ok atm


http://www.pokerhand.org/?3179484

[FuglyBaz]

tried ur tactic - worked a treat haha....

Game #7707484914: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/09/11 - 12:44:00 (UK)
Table "Jeffrey" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: mpeterox sits out
Seat 2: PorscheGT ($106.03 in chips)
Seat 3: Mic180126 ($32.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 ($21.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 ($109.56 in chips)
Seat 6: anaceupmy ($40.89 in chips)
Jimmmy001: posts small blind $0.50
anaceupmy: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to PorscheGT [ ]
PorscheGT: raises to $4
Mic180126: folds
Jupiter1: folds
Jimmmy001: raises to $14
anaceupmy: folds
PorscheGT: calls $10
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Jimmmy001: bets $20
PorscheGT: raises to $92.03 and is all-in
Jimmmy001: folds
Returned uncalled bets $72.03 to PorscheGT
PorscheGT: doesn't show hand
PorscheGT collected $66 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $69 Main pot $66 Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 2: PorscheGT collected $66
Seat 3: Mic180126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jupiter1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmmy001 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: anaceupmy (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

No, that's just shit

why is it?

he 3bets pre - im thinking he has hit none of that - therefore could only call with AKh.... or somewhere there abouts - which ive still got outs to...

so why is it?

What equity do u have with 34 suited on the board?