Do you go bust here ?

[ShatnerPants]

THIS ISN'T ONE FOR THOSE OF A WEAK DISPOSITION.  SERIOUS ABUSE COULD WELL BE REQUIRED.  ONLY PROCEED IF YOU ARE WILLING TO ADMINISTER SAID ABUSE.

Not long after the first break, I was about 60th of 200 odd left in ( 500 runners ).

In the first hour I played a few too many hands, but generally played not too bad, although I'd wasted some chips with a couple of daft c-bets, and a couple of dodgy calls on the flop before folding the turn to aggression.

So all in all probably a 'C' , maybe a 'C-'

Just before the break, having not played a hand for what seemed like an age, I tried to get clever, and this happened.  Villain had been quite quiet, and I thought I could outplay him.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2+0.25 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

Button (t10640)
SB (t10320)
Hero (BB) (t6400)
UTG (t11249)
UTG+1 (t7420)
MP1 (t2840)
MP2 (t1780)
CO (t15750)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 9
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 raises to t400, 5 folds, Hero calls t300, 1 fold

Flop: (t950) 10, 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t800, Hero raises to t2100, UTG+1 raises to t6600, Hero folds

Total pot: t5150

Results in white below:
UTG+1 had A, K (high card, Ace).
Outcome: UTG+1 won t5150

So I'm not as good as I think I am ( and that's a pretty poor thing to admit to )

After the break this hand happened.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2+0.25 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP2 (t7685)
MP3 (t9960)
CO (t11260)
Hero (Button) (t8170)
SB (t9669)
BB (t9090)
UTG (t2440)
UTG+1 (t1050)
MP1 (t13500)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, K
2 folds, MP1 calls t120, MP2 calls t120, MP3 calls t120, 1 fold, Hero calls t120, SB calls t60, BB checks

Flop: (t720) 9, 2, 4 (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t600, 1 fold

Turn: (t1920) 7 (2 players)
BB bets t1560, Hero raises to t7450 (All-In), BB calls t5890

River: (t16820) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t16820

Results in white below:
Hero had 9, K (one pair, nines).
BB had 9, J (two pair, Jacks and nines).
Outcome: BB won t16820

Looking back it should have been a fold pre.  But with that many limpers, is it ever worth it ?

Given the first mistake, I was thinking not to go bust, but when villain from the first hand got jiggy on the flop, I thought I saw all my chips coming back.  Putting him on 2 overs, like before, when the turn was blank, I thought I had him.

Ok I was right, and he got lucky.  And if I'd won it, I'd be well up there.  But with well over 150 left in, in hindsight it seems a daft way to go out.

Does anyone play this, even allowing for the preflop odds ?  And then when the flop hits, should I have just stuck in a raise on the flop, and then passed to any further aggression?

Or was I justified in trying to get clever with a crap hand, and should do the same thing again , next time ?  To win a MTT you have to push your luck when you think you have the edge, and suffer the consequences when you're wrong ?

[Graham C]

You're calling with bad hands, both fold preflop imo.  Even with all the limpers in the second one, unless the flop comes KKK or something sick, you just don't know where you are in the hand.  Wait for better opportunities.

[ShatnerPants]

You're calling with bad hands, both fold preflop imo.  Even with all the limpers in the second one, unless the flop comes KKK or something sick, you just don't know where you are in the hand.  Wait for better opportunities.

The first hand I played was AT from MP, which I folded after 3 or 4 guys called, and the flop missed.  Then I played premium hands only, until I got a stack ( including a lovely double up with AA just when I needed it ), and started with the 'I can outplay these guys' thinking, getting smart with crap.

[Graham C]

Don't try and outplay anyone at this level, no one notices.   They don't realise you haven't raised preflop for an hour.  It's time to get jiggy is when you're either really low, the blinds are worth having or you're getting really deep.

[LeKnave]

You're calling with bad hands, both fold preflop imo.  Even with all the limpers in the second one, unless the flop comes KKK or something sick, you just don't know where you are in the hand.  Wait for better opportunities.

indeed. 

[ShatnerPants]

When I'm in the middle of the game, it seems I play these hands when I've been quiet for  a while.

And when I went out, my immediate reaction was that I was unlucky, but as soon as I looked back at the HH it seems that there's a weakness there.

So how best to combat it. ?

Just saying play tighter is tough, so should I multitable MTTs?  Would it help to get any software, like PT or similar ?  Does that help stop one being too active ?

[Graham C]

So how best to combat it. ?

Fold preflop. 

Yes to multitabling.  I don't bother with software for tourneys, I'm not sure you need it, certainly not for stopping you being too active.

[Graham C]

I do it too, you're certainly not alone, look at some of the calls you get when you are playing - loads of people do it, you just need to try and not do it. 

Reading where other people have done it helps (seriously) you read that someone has called and got themselves in trouble, then you remember to fold.  When you get your hole cards, take a sec to think what you are going to do and what you hope to achieve with your actions, perhaps it will help refocus you.

[ShatnerPants]

I think I enjoy playing too much sometimes. I  forget that the idea is to win the tourney, not just to show off for an hour and a half.

[thetank]

+1 to everything Silo just said.

[TheChipPrince]

+1 to everything Silo just said.

Amen to that, Silo on form...

[AlexMartin]

+1 to everything Silo just said.

Amen to that, Silo on form...

yeah. listen to this man.

[Graham C]

There had to be one time.

My work in the PHA is done

[ShatnerPants]

I do it too, you're certainly not alone, look at some of the calls you get when you are playing - loads of people do it, you just need to try and not do it. 

Reading where other people have done it helps (seriously) you read that someone has called and got themselves in trouble, then you remember to fold.  When you get your hole cards, take a sec to think what you are going to do and what you hope to achieve with your actions, perhaps it will help refocus you.

Thanks for the advice.  I think it's a simple enough solution.

I've got to retrain my thinking process during the actual game.

I look at those hands this morning, and cringe.  But I know full well, at the time, I had good ( read terrible ) logical reasons for seeing the flop.  And I knew I wasn't going to lose anymore unless I hit the flop HUGE.  Yeah, right.

But once I saw a piece of a nibble of a potential hand, I overplayed them both ( but still a small part of my mind is saying - but on that 2nd one, you read him well, and were unlucky - semiconcious arrogance at work ).

I know that's bad.  Apart from those hands, and a couple of others I got away from reasonably cheaply, I played pretty well for about an hour and a half.  Then I twat it away so simply.

Away from the table, I'm learning more, and getting better at the theory.  It's just it all gets a bit too busy in the heat of the moment.

Don't quite know how best to fix it.  If someone else had posted those hands, I'd be laughing at them.

Maybe I should change my name to DumbasstwatnerPants.

[ShatnerPants]

There had to be one time.

My work in the PHA is done

Oh No.

You don't get away that easily.

Now you've passed 11111 posts, you've got until 22222 to make a player out of me .