General line check oop v TAG.

[AlexMartin]

Villain is decent and can hand read better than most. Something like 24/19/3. On the turn i know a standard is to bet/fold but seriously wtf is he repping? I want to 3b the turn so much but am  not sure if it is spew or sweet. What u think?


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 420315299 *****
NL $2.50/$5 Texas Hold'em - Monday, September 29, 16:13:08 GMT 2008
Table Nitrogen 162 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of active players : 6
Seat 1: ISickOOsicK ( $524 )
Seat 2: zanacca ( $102.90 )
Seat 3: 3hugger ( $670.80 )
Seat 4: JammyJenny ( $643.40 )
Seat 5: GreatGreek ( $520.30 )
Seat 6: breiflabben ( $498.90 )
ISickOOsicK posts small blind [$2.50]
zanacca posts big blind [$5]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JammyJenny [ , ]
3hugger folds
JammyJenny raises to [$17.50]
GreatGreek folds
breiflabben calls [$17.50]
ISickOOsicK folds
zanacca folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
JammyJenny checks
breiflabben checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
JammyJenny bets [$25]
breiflabben raises to [$70]
JammyJenny folds
Returning uncalled bet [$45] to breiflabben
** Hand Conclusion **
breiflabben wins $89.50 from main pot
************  Game 420315299 ends  ************

[TheChipPrince]

When he checks behind on the flop are you thinking its strength or weaknesses making him check?  Do you fold to a bet there or are you checking to raise?

[Longy]

Aren't we turning our hand into bluff here, when it probably has some showdown value.

If you think he is full of it why not flat and call the river?

Like you i probably chicken it and chuck it on the turn just really don't like shoving here.

[DaveShoelace]

If he hand reads well as you say, he could be doing this with just top pair and was pre-empting you check raising that flop (whats your c-bet % btw). When the turn brings a pretty good card for a top pair hand maybe he thinks he has the nuts and wants you to get it in with a pair and draw hand, now that you are the dog.

I wouldnt say that 24/19/3 makes him a 'tag' necessarily and he possibly has a wide range on the button (whats his btn vpip btw) so he could also have 56, 67, 66 etc.

Its really tough to put him on a hand, but I dont like 3-betting the turn especially given you checking the flop, you are only really going to take him off the hands you already beat and occassional random jacks.

I play this hand pretty much the same way, although I would bet flop some of the time if he was a little looser.

[ThatsSoMinusEV]

You should prob cbet that flop actually, although checking is fine. Are you planning to c/f or c/c one street? You gain value from naked clubs and you can always safely c/f to a club turn

Your check might indicate a monster or a hand with SD value. Airballs are likely to Cbet that flop, so it is very likely he'd bet with the  or made flush here.

The turn is certainly a bet. Protect your hand from naked clubs, and overcards so your not really turning you hand into a bluff. A jack might fold sometimes here too so a bet isn't bad.

He bluff/raises this turn with air a lot, because he has kinda repp'd cking back w strength. However, I really don't think he checks back the flop that much w a flush, but if we bet/call we will probably face a large bet on the river.

I would b/c this turn and c/c all non-club rivers. The only rivers which play bad are non-club A/K, which sucks when they fall, and I'd prob c/c them anyway as 1pair is prob going to SD

[UpTheMariners]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

[T_Mar]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

[EvilPie]

Maybe he just thinks you've got nothing.

Do you normally c bet when you've raised pre? Perhaps he thinks you've missed and have tried repping the turn because he didn't bet the flop after your check.

Check check on the flop then lead out on the turn is pretty standard so he maybe thinks it's worth testing you.

That board makes it very difficult for you to reraise without a very strong hand so if he's got the he gets a shot at it now with a nice pot builder if you call and he hits.

For him to flat it suggests a club so he's not getting paid extra if he hits anyway.

I don't think he's repping anything. I think he's got a nice club and is just semi bluffing because you've shown a bit of weakness with your check on the flop.

[UpTheMariners]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

na bet again

[AlexMartin]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

na bet again

if ur cbetting and double barreling this regularly dont you just get totally pwned when regs realise this? Board is afterall perfect for floating. I could understand v a donk but v a decent player Dan?

[UpTheMariners]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

na bet again

if ur cbetting and double barreling this regularly dont you just get totally pwned when regs realise this? Board is afterall perfect for floating. I could understand v a donk but v a decent player Dan?

well maybe, but im not just going to check just in case they float me. if the villian is floating alot just bet the flop and check raise alot of turns. 

[totalise]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

na bet again

if ur cbetting and double barreling this regularly dont you just get totally pwned when regs realise this? Board is afterall perfect for floating. I could understand v a donk but v a decent player Dan?

if the board is perfect for floatin, you can make one of two assumtions:

a) they will try and take advantage of this far too much and leave themselves open to exploitation
b) their ranges are balanced so perfectly that they are inexploitable

given that they are playing 2.50/5 and not rail heaven, it likely means b) isn't correct, so go with a)

poker these days is nothing more then a glorified contest of rock-scissors-paper,and one of the ways to get an edge is the game of assumption. If your opponent sees you on a few tables, he will assume that you are balancing your range with bluffs/draws/nut hands, so if your opponent is already assuming this, you dont need to try so hard to balance ur ranges. Play ur draws a bit more passively, play your nut hands a bit more aggresively, and you will exploit them in the game of rock-scissors-paper before they even realised what is going on, and by the time they have tried to adjust, you will have the upper hand in the adjustment game.

[AlexMartin]

look at it from his point of view if you had a strong hand you would of bet the flop not to give a free club away. so when you check the flop, bet the turn he should be raising you with a wide range providing he is a good thinking player. bet the flop imo

This sounds good to me - presume you just shut down on the turn if your flop bet is cold called?

na bet again

if ur cbetting and double barreling this regularly dont you just get totally pwned when regs realise this? Board is afterall perfect for floating. I could understand v a donk but v a decent player Dan?

if the board is perfect for floatin, you can make one of two assumtions:

a) they will try and take advantage of this far too much and leave themselves open to exploitation
b) their ranges are balanced so perfectly that they are inexploitable

given that they are playing 2.50/5 and not rail heaven, it likely means b) isn't correct, so go with a)

poker these days is nothing more then a glorified contest of rock-scissors-paper,and one of the ways to get an edge is the game of assumption. If your opponent sees you on a few tables, he will assume that you are balancing your range with bluffs/draws/nut hands, so if your opponent is already assuming this, you dont need to try so hard to balance ur ranges. Play ur draws a bit more passively, play your nut hands a bit more aggresively, and you will exploit them in the game of rock-scissors-paper before they even realised what is going on, and by the time they have tried to adjust, you will have the upper hand in the adjustment game.

i like this, its sound advice in todays levelling game imo. In terms of frequency assuming our opponents are not paying 110% concentration to our style/patterns, what line do you think is generally more optimal v a decent aggro tag totalise?