So what did you do in the war Grandad?

[wader leg]

When I read on tikays diary thread of the world war 2 bomber at the RAF museum I remembered about my grandads bits and pieces that mum had kept hold of after he died about 25 years ago , I knew he had been a navigator on Halifax bombers during the war and wondered if there might be an interesting photo or two.
So off I went to my mum and dads and came away with a box full of stuff:- birth certificates, death certificates, wills, old sepia photographs of people I don't recognise. All interesting things in their own right but not what I was looking for.
At the bottom of the box was a manilla folder and a quick peek inside revealed a treasure trove of photographs, letters from the RAF, an exercise book on navigation by the stars, medical records and another folder.
Inside this are what look like the navigational notes of 17 bombing runs he flew in 1942 immaculately detailed with all the information of the flight from take off to releasing the bombs and landing back at base and reading some of the things he has written in them made my hair stand on end.

I will post some photos over the next few days , here's the first few.

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102 Squadron "J" for Johnny and crew August 1942, Gramps is 3rd from left.

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One of the flight logs from a sortie
They are written in pencil so they are quite hard to photograph I will get some better copies later.

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Here's a close up of one, Navigator P/O Hargreaves is my Grandad , The target is Saarbrucken and the Special Orders details the bombs they were carrying

[RED-DOG]

Fantastic.

[tikay]

Wonderful stuff, Wader, thank you.

I am going back to Duxford (Imperial War Museum) Flying Musuem soon, and Red, & Simon Trumper, & maybe a few others are coming along - I'm trying to get round to organising it right now. (Waiting for Red & Aces to make their mind up, sigh). I must ask Compo (he lives Local-ish to Duxford), Karabiner (he remembers WW1) & I think Kev might be interested, too. It's a fabulous tribute to our WW11 Airmen & Women.

I believe they had a Halifax Bomber there - or something very similar - I will get some pics when we go. You'd be welcome to come along, by the way.

[dik9]

Fantastic Wader Leg, I don't know if you would be interested but you may want to preserve a little bit of history by adding his name and the photos here http://www.wartimememories.co.uk/allied/royalairforce/102sqd-raf.html and if you delve into some of the personal stories and photographs, there are many unknown names, maybe you could fill some gaps.

[turny]

Wonderful stuff, Wader, thank you.

I am going back to Duxford (Imperial War Museum) Flying Musuem soon, and Red, & Simon Trumper, & maybe a few others are coming along - I'm trying to get round to organising it right now. (Waiting for Red & Aces to make their mind up, sigh). I must ask Compo (he lives Local-ish to Duxford), Karabiner (he remembers WW1) & I think Kev might be interested, too. It's a fabulous tribute to our WW11 Airmen & Women.

I believe they had a Halifax Bomber there - or something very similar - I will get some pics when we go. You'd be welcome to come along, by the way.

wow great stuff wader please show us more.

and tony please add me to your list, i love anything to do with ww2 and although its not that far from me i have never been to duxford.

[Acidmouse]

Excellent pics and story. You can never get enough stories about the wars

[Royal Flush]

Something i find amazing from that is those flight logs are nearly identical to the ones pilots use today.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Colchester Kev]

Love it Wader ... post more please.

Tikay, im in for the trip, though you do know we will NEVER get Tom out of the "working sheds" once he sets foot in them.

[tikay]

Love it Wader ... post more please.

Tikay, im in for the trip, though you do know we will NEVER get Tom out of the "working sheds" once he sets foot in them.

He'll be in there all day!

But I imagine we'll all wander around independently - the place is massive, extends for over a mile I'd say, with different buildings, hangers & workshops for different things, & a bunch of themed cafes.

The UK Building is beautifully arranged - a first floor with a balcony all the way round, looking down onto dozens of old aeroplanes, all parked wing to wing, & you can then go down & inspect them, walk under them, even get in some of them. It's awesome.

They also do "pleasure flights" (a misnomer if ever I saw one) in 70 year-old single-engined bi-planes, taking off & landing on a grass runway. Shudder.

We really must go & do this. A sort of blonde Old Codgers Outing.

[tikay]

Just to tease you......

[Royal Flush]

Tilts me up Lancasters and Halifax but no-one remembers the Stirling!

[tikay]

Tilts me up Lancasters and Halifax but no-one remembers the Stirling!

There you go, now stop sulking.

[wader leg]

The trip sounds a great idea Tony, let me know when you sort a date out.
I had seen that site dik and wondered about emailing whoever runs it, there's some great info on there, I'm definitely going to get in touch with some of the forums dedicated to this sort of stuff.
I got the impression that the Halifax's relationship to the Lancaster was the same as that of the Hurricane and Spitfire, the Lancs and the Spitfires getting all the glory. One thing i've found while searching for info was that the Halifax crew had a higher survival rate if the plane was shot down, as it was easier to exit a Halifax due to the positioning of the escape hatches, the Lancaster was just designed to carry the biggest bombs the furthest distance and the designer of the plane actually started by digging a 30ft long hole in the ground to represent the bomb bay and designed a plane around the hole. Having said that the chances of bomber crews surviving were pretty slim whichever plane you flew. 55,000 killed 10,000 taken POW out of 150,000 personnel.
460 Squadron crewed by Australians had around 200 aircrew at any one time and lost over 1000 men during the war, in effect wiping out the entire station 5 times over.

For any given 100 aircrew in Bomber Command, 1939-1945,the statistical breakdown was:

Killed on operations 51
Killed in crashes in England 9
Seriously injured 3
Prisoner of War 12
Evaded capture 1
Survived unharmed 24


I need to get these in some sort of order timeframe wise here's some random ones until I get sorted, I've photographed everything in black and white as the writing seems to show better.


Do they still use these Flushy?

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This seems so stereotypical of the RAF it looks like it could be off a filmset

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From another log, reading this makes me wonder just how close he came to not coming back

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[tikay]

Thanks Wader - I adiore that middle pic. And almost everybody has a ciggie on!

[tikay]

For any given 100 aircrew in Bomber Command, 1939-1945,the statistical breakdown was:

Killed on operations 51
Killed in crashes in England 9
Seriously injured 3
Prisoner of War 12
Evaded capture 1
Survived unharmed 24

What sobering stats they are.