is this angle shooting, correct ruling or victimization ?

[TEX FITZ]

hi guys, i was in a pub tourny last night and i think an unfair ruling was made against me during a hand. Chip counts/blinds don't really matter but it was between the 2 chip leaders, rob and me (he had me covered by about 1000 chips)

rob was introduced as new to the game but i later found out he regularly visits casinos to play.

scenario :- pub tourny 10 players, 5 left. Play for points (small kitty between top 3)

SB - rob
BB - me

all fold to rob, he makes up and i check

FLOP - rob checks, i bet 1/2 pot, rob calls
TURN - rob checks, i bet the pot, rob calls

by now we both getting short stacked, but still enough to continue playing.

RIVER - within a second rob throws his cards into the community cards face up, i see i'm beat (he paired the board with 2nd bottom pair on the turn)
so i assume he's mucked and start gathering the pot then a voice pipes up "hang on it's tex to bet" so rob grabs his cards back from the middle and puts them back in front of him (no line on the table)

i then say to the table that he played out of turn and threw his cards so i win. then the DEBATE started :-

"he didn't say fold"
"you can still bet"
"you haven't showed to prove you won"
rob stayed quiet throughout the DEBATE

we call over the TD (pub landlord) and he says he 'thinks' he saw something like this in a casino and robs hand is live because it hadn't touched the mucked cards.
rob then says "oh well i'll check" He has more chips than me, but being a bit peeved and thinking he wont call with 2nd bottom pair i go all in.

amid comments of "he's bluffing" "you've got more than him" "you need points" etc, rob calls and i'm out.

was that the correct ruling or were the short stacks trying to climb up the ladder.

i'm over it now but i know if i used that tactic i would be severly frowned upon as me and missus usually take their money off them.

It's not a big game but classic pub players - limp limp limp limp limp RAISE call call call call call

your views/opinions would be greatly appreciated as i would like to know the exact ruling on this, i know rules differ but surely this must be a black/white situation

[turny]

there are no black and white rules in poker unfortunately!

[Rookie (Rodney)]

tl;dr

[LeKnave]

tl;dr

lol.

and lol pub poker.  the whole of pub poker is probably totally bent for the pub regs.

[Horneris]

tl;dr

+1

[Karabiner]

tl;dr

-1 wtfdtm ?

[LeKnave]

tl;dr

-1 wtfdtm ?

lol, too long; didnt read.

[AndrewT]

we call over the TD (pub landlord)

This is why pub poker is rubbish. The landlord is generally only interesting in stopping fights breaking out - apart from that he doesn't care what happens.

When Rob threw his cards in you should have clarified what he had done - 'Have you folded Rob?' - before you start gathering in chips, rather than just assuming, to avoid exactly this type of situation.

And bluffing into a sizeable pot isn't a great tactic in a game full of players like this.

It's not a big game but classic pub players - limp limp limp limp limp RAISE call call call call call

[AlexMartin]

his hand is exposed and mucked. its dead. but pub poker is terrible dude.

[EvilPie]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

[StuartHopkin]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

I disagree

[EvilPie]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

I disagree

[ ] I care

[ariston]

dont think its angle shooting its just standard dumb pub players.

ruling should be his hand is dead as he has chucked it face up exposing his cards when action is still to take place. The fact there is no line doesnt matter- he has clearly folded his hand by throwing it face up into the community cards. Having said that pub games tend to be friendly/non serious affairs where cards are often shown and comments are regularly made by players not in the pot so I wouldnt worry about it too much. If you want serious poker go to proper tournaments held at casinos/dtd wherever. If you want a giggle and a drink go to pub games.

[TEX FITZ]

thanks for response guys, even the constructive ones.

There was no heated debate, shouting, fists etc. i accepted it, got up and went to the bar.

i'll remember THEIR rules in case i need to use them in my favour.

i know what you mean about standard pub games, add on the fact me and GF intruded into their regular little game a while back. picture the scene - strangers walk through saloon doors, 2 seconds later you hear the proverbial pin drop.

[AlexMartin]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

yeah, soz, didnt mean to tarnish all pub poker, just the ones iv been to have been dire. sounds like u run a decent one evil.