is this angle shooting, correct ruling or victimization ?

[StuartHopkin]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

If your ever in Nottingham on a Monday night you should come along! We get more runners than Gala!
4k Stack 12 minute levels, dealers provided and even a laptop showing the clock, average and prizes etc.

yeah, soz, didnt mean to tarnish all pub poker, just the ones iv been to have been dire. sounds like u run a decent one evil.

[AndrewT]

i'll remember THEIR rules in case i need to use them in my favour.

Except next time, their rules might be different...

[Cf]

Ok. Here's my spin on it:

- The act of exposing the cards doesn't mean the hand is dead (unless you specifically have a house rule saying this), but there should be a punishment after the hand for doing this.

- The act of throwing the cards to the dealer shows a fold, but this is an out of turn action. His cards should be returned to him.

He has however, acted out of turn and is bound to this action should you check to him - so do that. At it happens, by making an aggressive action you've given him the option of calling this bet.

As for the people saying "he's bluffing" etc - this is way out of order, but at a pub game I doubt there's much you can do.

[RED-DOG]

tl;dr

Sorry, but this makes me lol.

[EvilPie]

I would just like to say that not all pub poker is terrible.

Me and Stu run an event every Monday at our local and it's really good fun. We regularly get 25+ runners and have peaked at 36 so it makes for a decent little tourney.

It is really well organised and there are never any disputes because we know the rules that we use and everybody knows that what we say goes.

If this happened at our place the cards are dead as soon as they are thrown at the dealer so you win. There could be an argument if you'd checked first and he exposed face up that if they didn't actually hit the muck then it was a showdown. In your situation though you've been done over.

yeah, soz, didnt mean to tarnish all pub poker, just the ones iv been to have been dire. sounds like u run a decent one evil.

If your ever in Nottingham on a Monday night you should come along! We get more runners than Gala!
4k Stack 12 minute levels, dealers provided and even a laptop showing the clock, average and prizes etc.

FYP

Your quoting skillz are on fire today mate.

[gatso]

Ok. Here's my spin on it:

- The act of exposing the cards doesn't mean the hand is dead (unless you specifically have a house rule saying this), but there should be a punishment after the hand for doing this.

- The act of throwing the cards to the dealer shows a fold, but this is an out of turn action. His cards should be returned to him.

He has however, acted out of turn and is bound to this action should you check to him - so do that. At it happens, by making an aggressive action you've given him the option of calling this bet.

As for the people saying "he's bluffing" etc - this is way out of order, but at a pub game I doubt there's much you can do.

well fuck me, I actually agree with cf on a ruling. td got this spot on

as the guy was not facing action then his cards should always be returned to him as long as they can be identified 100% and have not gone been mucked. putting them face up on the community cards meets these criteria.

then we carry on with the hand before giving him a penalty afterwards

I'm not happy with that ruling but I think it's the correct one, if someone can point me to the rule that says this is a pass then I'll happily change my mind

[Cf]

Ok. Here's my spin on it:

- The act of exposing the cards doesn't mean the hand is dead (unless you specifically have a house rule saying this), but there should be a punishment after the hand for doing this.

- The act of throwing the cards to the dealer shows a fold, but this is an out of turn action. His cards should be returned to him.

He has however, acted out of turn and is bound to this action should you check to him - so do that. At it happens, by making an aggressive action you've given him the option of calling this bet.

As for the people saying "he's bluffing" etc - this is way out of order, but at a pub game I doubt there's much you can do.

well fuck me, I actually agree with cf on a ruling. td got this spot on

lol, I don't agree with my ruling because I've just reread the original post.

The villian acted first here?

"i then say to the table that he played out of turn" - This is what threw me. But it would appear the villian is SB, hero BB so the villian was acting first.

If this is the case then he has folded, and it is your pot. Whether he said "fold" or not is irrelevent, the act of throwing your cards into the middle of the table is a fold. It is your pot, and you do not have to show your cards.

[EvilPie]

Ok. Here's my spin on it:

- The act of exposing the cards doesn't mean the hand is dead (unless you specifically have a house rule saying this), but there should be a punishment after the hand for doing this.

- The act of throwing the cards to the dealer shows a fold, but this is an out of turn action. His cards should be returned to him.

He has however, acted out of turn and is bound to this action should you check to him - so do that. At it happens, by making an aggressive action you've given him the option of calling this bet.

As for the people saying "he's bluffing" etc - this is way out of order, but at a pub game I doubt there's much you can do.

well fuck me, I actually agree with cf on a ruling. td got this spot on

as the guy was not facing action then his cards should always be returned to him as long as they can be identified 100% and have not gone been mucked. putting them face up on the community cards meets these criteria.

then we carry on with the hand before giving him a penalty afterwards

I'm not happy with that ruling but I think it's the correct one, if someone can point me to the rule that says this is a pass then I'll happily change my mind

Isn't there a rule about it being in the interests of fairness?

It's not like the guy accidently mucked his cards thinking that the other guy had bet and it was his turn. He threw them towards the muck face up which to me is a clear fold.

As soon as they were pushed towards the dealer he should scoop them up and put them in the muck thus killing them off completely.

He clearly intended to fold so I think it should stand. In the interests of fairness obviously.

[gatso]

Ok. Here's my spin on it:

- The act of exposing the cards doesn't mean the hand is dead (unless you specifically have a house rule saying this), but there should be a punishment after the hand for doing this.

- The act of throwing the cards to the dealer shows a fold, but this is an out of turn action. His cards should be returned to him.

He has however, acted out of turn and is bound to this action should you check to him - so do that. At it happens, by making an aggressive action you've given him the option of calling this bet.

As for the people saying "he's bluffing" etc - this is way out of order, but at a pub game I doubt there's much you can do.

well fuck me, I actually agree with cf on a ruling. td got this spot on

lol, I don't agree with my ruling because I've just reread the original post.

The villian acted first here?

"i then say to the table that he played out of turn" - This is what threw me. But it would appear the villian is SB, hero BB so the villian was acting first.

If this is the case then he has folded, and it is your pot. Whether he said "fold" or not is irrelevent, the act of throwing your cards into the middle of the table is a fold. It is your pot, and you do not have to show your cards.

lolz, I did exactly the same, as I would imagine did the td. so I still agree with you cf, clear fold now I unserstand the situation.

sorry tex but you cost yourself the pot by not understanding who acts first in a pot

[gatso]

Isn't there a rule about it being in the interests of fairness?

It's not like the guy accidently mucked his cards thinking that the other guy had bet and it was his turn. He threw them towards the muck face up which to me is a clear fold.

As soon as they were pushed towards the dealer he should scoop them up and put them in the muck thus killing them off completely.

He clearly intended to fold so I think it should stand. In the interests of fairness obviously.

matt, not relevant to this particular situation as I'd misunderstood it due to what op said to the td but in general a player going to pass oop by throwing in their cards does not necessarily constitute a pass.

the easiest example to illustrate this is a player in the bb; how many times have you seen a bb push their cards forward with the intention of passing only to have theim pushed back by the dealer and informed that they have the option to check? they clearly intend to fold yet in pretty much every cardroom anywhere they will not be held to it. same is often true with open folding on a later street, the dealer's like that little box that pops up online to protect you and let you know that checking is free

[TEX FITZ]

 i have somehow mislead the issue, rob did not act out of turn (he was SB) but all other actions were as i stated, sorry for any confusion

[gatso]

i have somehow mislead the issue, rob did not act out of turn (he was SB) but all other actions were as i stated, sorry for any confusion

yeah, figured that out eventually. the problem is that once this happened...

i then say to the table that he played out of turn and threw his cards so i win. then the DEBATE started :-

...you've put it into people's heads that he did act oot, as demonstrated by this thread, and it's not surprising that the ruling went the way it did

[tikay]

..and this tickled me......

"....lol, I don't agree with my ruling..."

Especially after Gatso said he agreed with him for the first time!

I have a headache now.

[Cf]

..and this tickled me......

"....lol, I don't agree with my ruling..."

Especially after Gatso said he agreed with him for the first time!

I have a headache now.

You're not the only one

[MANTIS01]

The guy's hand isn't dead and it isn't in the muck, it's just exposed. He can't make action now but can call or fold if you bet. I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist about this. What a good advantage for you. You can now use that advantage to play your hand out whatever way you want. Either push and get him to fold or check and allow the best hand to win. Claiming the pot on a technicality because you can't win it otherwise lacks class imo.