Bet the river?

[pokerfan]

was all over the place in this hand, villain is new to table no info on him. question is bet the river for value or check it down looking to snap any bet?
PokerStars Game #22503416061:  Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2008/11/30 14:57:20 ET
Table 'Cebriones II' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: jaymac111 ($1201.75 in chips)
Seat 2: fumbo420 ($1216.75 in chips)
Seat 3: SobraoBoY ($1267 in chips)
Seat 4: actionDJ ($1000 in chips)
Seat 5: Lorenstefan ($464 in chips)
Seat 6: PimpMySpeed ($190 in chips)
Seat 7: Krazyball ($257 in chips)
Seat 8: pokersuzy ($940.50 in chips)
Seat 9: mal666 ($915 in chips)
actionDJ: posts small blind $5
Lorenstefan: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mal666 [ ]
PimpMySpeed: folds
Krazyball: folds
pokersuzy: folds
mal666: raises $20 to $30
jaymac111: folds
fumbo420: folds
SobraoBoY: raises $90 to $120
actionDJ: folds
Lorenstefan: folds
mal666: calls $90
*** FLOP *** [ ]
mal666: checks
SobraoBoY: bets $180
mal666: calls $180
*** TURN *** [ ] []
mal666: bets $250
SobraoBoY: calls $250
*** RIVER *** [ ] 

[Jim-D]

And the river is?....

[pokerfan]

lol good question. let me fix it.

[Moskvich]

As played on the river, I guess you have to bet - because he'll call with some hands that he won't bet if checked to, but he won't bet any hands that he won't call with (since you've got so little left relative to the pot, and because you have to have either a pair or the flush here).

So since you now have to call a bet from him, which will put you all in, you get to play against a (probably only marginally) wider range by betting yourself than by check-calling.

If you're considering betting the river for value though, would it not have been better to crai on the turn? He's then got to call another 365 into a pot of almost 1500 on a 4-flush board, so I'd have thought he'd have to call with a still wider range. Once it gets to the river, I wonder if he actually can fold some of the time, on the basis that you have to have some sort of hand and also should have no fold equity, so therefore can't be bluffing..?

I don't really know what to make of his turn bet of 250 into 600 though. Imagine it's mostly strong, JJ+ (and I guess it could be a fold right here against some known players). But maybe other pps looking to get value from worse pairs and the occasional draw, at the same time as avoiding any difficult river decisions? Suppose it could in some situations be an attempt at a cheap bluff - no point shoving when a bet of 250 obviously commits your stack in any case. But it's a terrible board for that, doesn't seem to make any sense. So just get it in on the turn for me.

[MC]

I don't really know what to make of his turn bet of 250 into 600 though

You mis-read, he called a lead out $250 bet, he didn't bet himself.

I think KK & AA pop you on the turn. Tens got there and the flush got there...but I'm leaning towards value towning this river as I'd say there's a lot of hands he might have that you're beating, and it's difficult to put him on a hand that beats you the way this played out...

[pokerfan]

I actually checked the river and he checked behind,i was absolutely sure i was winning and couldnt see him calling a push so invited him to bet it for me. obv he passed this option and it left me thinking he wouldv`e called had i done so given the turn action,Hero calling with A high.
Value Town it is next time!
mal666: checks
SobraoBoY: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mal666: shows [ ] (two pair, Queens and Threes)
SobraoBoY: mucks hand
mal666 collected $1112 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1115 | Rake $3
Board [     ]
Seat 1: jaymac111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: fumbo420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: SobraoBoY (button) mucked [ ]
Seat 4: actionDJ (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Lorenstefan (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: PimpMySpeed folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Krazyball folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: pokersuzy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mal666 showed [ ] and won ($1112) with two pair, Queens and Threes

[Moskvich]

You mis-read, he called a lead out $250 bet, he didn't bet himself.

Oops, sorry, makes more sense now lol.