Check or Bet

[daviebhoy]

We can be almost certain opponent has a premium hand here :

Hold'em NL (£0.25/£0.50) - 2008/12/02 - 00:11:56 (UK)
Table "Sikkentcnat" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: Phi030316 sits out
Seat 2: Ewanj0310 (£16.85 in chips)
Seat 3: 4_king_l (£81.78 in chips)
Seat 4: Platonic_ (£58.06 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero (£85.64 in chips)
Seat 6: Roles23 (£21.39 in chips)
4_king_l: posts small blind £0.25
Platonic_: posts big blind £0.50
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Hero [ ]
Hero: calls £0.50
Roles23: calls £0.50
Ewanj0310: calls £0.50
4_king_l: raises to £3
Platonic_: folds
Hero: calls £2.50
Roles23: folds
Ewanj0310: folds
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
4_king_l: bets £3.50
Hero: calls £3.50
----- TURN ----- [ ][]
4_king_l: bets £7.50
Hero: calls £7.50
----- RIVER ----- [ ][]
4_king_l: checks

Do you value bet here ?

[Graham C]

Yeah why wouldn't you?  If he's got QQ, he wouldn't be leading out on the turn, probably not on the flop either.   Obv you need to be Jen Tilly to put him on 88, hopefuuly he's got and is going to pay you off massively. 

If he's got QQ, 99  or 88 then it's just a cooler for me.

[anthonyl]

Well I can't see him checking queens full or nines full...

[pokerfan]

Go ahead and fill your boots!

[Longy]

Why isn't there more in the pot?

Was the raise/bet button broke on the flop/turn?

[daviebhoy]

Hero: bets £5
4_king_l: raises to £30.50

Is it possible to fold here or should I be pushing all-in ? Or is the call now the sensible play ?

Opponent plays like one hand in every 30 and raises pre-flop less. He has to have AK, AA, KK or QQ.

[Longy]

Hero: bets £5
4_king_l: raises to £30.50

Is it possible to fold here or should I be pushing all-in ? Or is the call now the sensible play ?

Opponent plays like one hand in every 30 and raises pre-flop less. He has to have AK, AA, KK or QQ.

Well it is pretty sick as this obv doesn't look like aa/kk but akdd is still in his range. Of course qq is more likely but meh i call and cry.

Given his preflop range, not trying to inflate the pot on the flop is quite poor imo. Leading or c/r the flop are both valid lines, you got to raise at some point here.

[jakally]

Yeah why wouldn't you?  If he's got QQ, he wouldn't be leading out on the turn, probably not on the flop either.   Obv you need to be Jen Tilly to put him on 88, hopefuuly he's got and is going to pay you off massively. 

If he's got QQ, 99  or 88 then it's just a cooler for me.

Why not?
He's got £80 to try and get in the middle - more likely to get there betting than checking.

[daviebhoy]

Given his preflop range, not trying to inflate the pot on the flop is quite poor imo. Leading or c/r the flop are both valid lines, you got to raise at some point here.

I'd agree generally - although I am in position so difficult to lead out or check-raise :-). This situation was player dependent and as guy is so tight and we are so deep I don't want to push AK, AA or KK out of the pot. He is putting money in anyway.

On the turn my hand improves to the third nuts and I still don't want these hands to get away. We are both very deep and I don't like the fact he doesn't slow down on the turn as I am expecting it to be checked to me there if he has AK with the flush draw. If he has AA or KK it looks like I can win a decent sized bet on the river. I think pocket queens are likely and I don't think I can lay my hand down if he puts me all-in so I'm happy with quite a big pot but trying not to commit all my chips. I know this is conservative and not typical of how I would play this hand but these are my reasons for doing so on this occasion.

[TheChipPrince]

£5 into a pot of £30 is not really a value bet at all, you may as well check.  Longy is spot on (even if he does come across as grumpy ), we need to inflate the pot at 1 of 2 points where we 99% of the time have the best hand, raising or betting out at any point is fine, but call/call is not getting the pot anywhere near big enough for our hand strength...

As played I would call, too often he would have diamons/A8/10J/bluff...  If he has QQ/99, just unlucky, but have a little assessment of the hand and see where you improve down the different lines...

[GreekStein]

He's one of the regs on Crypto at these stakes...has been forever - you gotta hope he's playing something like the nut flush this way and not a boat.

You probably have to make a donation here if he has it. That being said I don't know why more money isn't in before the river.

I think he bets more on the flop with a hand like AKdd OR KK AA. This is often the line they take at 25p50p on Crypto when they have a big hand pre and flop massive.

Not saying I'm not calling, but I do think this smells of QQ.

[jakally]

£5 into a pot of £30 is not really a value bet at all, you may as well check.  Longy is spot on (even if he does come across as grumpy ), we need to inflate the pot at 1 of 2 points where we 99% of the time have the best hand, raising or betting out at any point is fine, but call/call is not getting the pot anywhere near big enough for our hand strength...

As played I would call, too often he would have diamons/A8/10J/bluff...  If he has QQ/99, just unlucky, but have a little assessment of the hand and see where you improve down the different lines...

If he plays 1 hand in 30 and raises less, he isn't ever showing up with A8 or JT here, and is an unlikely bluffer.

As to scaring him away Davy with a raise flop or turn, if he sits waiting for AA / KK he isn't then going to fold them easily.
Get some money in the pot early before any cards come to scare him too much.

If he's got QQ then smile and reload.

[Graham C]

Yeah why wouldn't you?  If he's got QQ, he wouldn't be leading out on the turn, probably not on the flop either.   Obv you need to be Jen Tilly to put him on 88, hopefuuly he's got and is going to pay you off massively. 

If he's got QQ, 99  or 88 then it's just a cooler for me.

Why not?
He's got £80 to try and get in the middle - more likely to get there betting than checking.

IMO, it's more common at NL50 is to check or check raise here.  Obv it could be though.

[Longy]

£5 into a pot of £30 is not really a value bet at all, you may as well check.  Longy is spot on (even if he does come across as grumpy ), we need to inflate the pot at 1 of 2 points where we 99% of the time have the best hand, raising or betting out at any point is fine, but call/call is not getting the pot anywhere near big enough for our hand strength...

As played I would call, too often he would have diamons/A8/10J/bluff...  If he has QQ/99, just unlucky, but have a little assessment of the hand and see where you improve down the different lines...

If he plays 1 hand in 30 and raises less, he isn't ever showing up with A8 or JT here, and is an unlikely bluffer.

As to scaring him away Davy with a raise flop or turn, if he sits waiting for AA / KK he isn't then going to fold them easily.
Get some money in the pot early before any cards come to scare him too much.

If he's got QQ then smile and reload.

This is the crucial point to me that we get so much more value from overpairs earlier in the hand than now.

QQ was always part of his range as supernits when they do tend to flop it, tend to play it hard.

Sorry if appear grumpy, it is late you know.

[TheChipPrince]

£5 into a pot of £30 is not really a value bet at all, you may as well check.  Longy is spot on (even if he does come across as grumpy ), we need to inflate the pot at 1 of 2 points where we 99% of the time have the best hand, raising or betting out at any point is fine, but call/call is not getting the pot anywhere near big enough for our hand strength...

As played I would call, too often he would have diamons/A8/10J/bluff...  If he has QQ/99, just unlucky, but have a little assessment of the hand and see where you improve down the different lines...

If he plays 1 hand in 30 and raises less, he isn't ever showing up with A8 or JT here, and is an unlikely bluffer.

As to scaring him away Davy with a raise flop or turn, if he sits waiting for AA / KK he isn't then going to fold them easily.
Get some money in the pot early before any cards come to scare him too much.

If he's got QQ then smile and reload.

Maybe, but 'plays 1 hand in 30' is usually a fugure of speech, and if he is playing only AA/KK we should hunt him and sit with him at every opportunity!