Tony G response

[AdamM]

point 1, many poor players play AK, AQ and AJ the same way and treat them as if they are more or less the same strength. If there's been a raise before you and you have AQ you are even money or a mile behind, if you have AK unless the raiser has AA or KK then you are even money or ahead. AQ is certainly not a re-raising hand (theoretically). raise and re raise with it but appreciate you're bluffing.

In the later stages of tournies, particularly against smaller stacks, I don't agree that you are either even money or a mile behind, quite often you will be a good favorite.

but you know what I said is true of many players in all stages of tourneys against all sizes of stack. of course there are times when you can call or reraise with AQ but it should be far less often than it is.

[tikay]

Ariston - it is NOT a slanging match - it's a variety of opinions, well expressed, all quite civil, by all of you, including you. Long may it last, we WANT these debates to continue, just because some folks disagree with each other, that does not make it a slanging match.

[ACE2M]

Funny that it says it will discourage people nicking your blinds. It would encourage me if i was a shortstack and in need of a double up to raise your blinds as i maywell get called by a poor hand against my better than average hand.

I do agree with it generally as i sometimes make these weird calls and it really freaks the table out.

[Gamblor21]

Tony latif is an excitable character and i think thats what you were on the recieving end of... his excitment!

I'm not condoning his outburst, but he is normally the first person to shake your hand if you knock him out. And he would'nt give rubdowns to create a table image etc... He has that anyway!

This is my first post on the thread, I do believe that the jumping about etc has become part of the game, My trip to america this year opened my eyes to this! One example is john laws final, michael gratz hit a mircle 8 on the turn and was jumping about etc celebrating his lucky card... ESPN like this tho and think nothing of it, infact they probably encourage it!

To be honest i just try to take it as it comes, and act the same... good luck welldone whether they got lucky or not!

[ariston]

I can take oppinions on everything apart from maths Tikay. Poker can be broken down into a number of very complex mathmatical formulas and although I do look like a numpty maths is one of my absolute strogest points. When someone questions my maths I always get a little tilty I must admit. I know my figures and although I am not Gus Hansen I have tried to base a lot of my plays on his. Many people consider him to be just a lucky so and so but if you ever get chance to read some of his thoughts on the pure maths side of the game you will realise how intelligent a bloke he is. Maths is the one way you can get me to tilt (just ask Kev what I was like at wombles when chubbs questioned my maths).

[tikay]

Noted Ariston, so if you can just learn that tilt is bad, you'll be THE most persuasive debater on here by a mile........ Telling your fellow debater "I'm not continuing, this is a slanging match" ain't gonna win many arguments, or convince peeps of the undoubted merits of your philosophy.

Iron fist in a velvet glove & all that.

At-It - yup, I know, but you had to see & hear this to believe it. You could hear it in Morecambe. Some peeps think that because they are better at poker - & most ARE better than me - that makes them a better person. Wrong. Nobody, not nobody, no how, no where, has the right to demean me. Or you. Or anyone else - just because the fates decided that a certain card would be dealt next. A little self-respect is no bad thing. "His excitement"? Rank bad manners I'd call it. Footballers rejoice in the misfortune of others, & openly rejoice when given a dubious penalty. Rugby Union players show a little more decorum. Men & boys, see?. Do yo really think that sort of behaviour will encourage MORE or LESS newbies into our game? Honest answer, yes or no....... (And yes, I do know the respect & freindship you have for the guy in question, which makes your position difficult. But yes or no?).

[Bongo]

Ariston, because you posted the BB, you cannot count that as part of the total amount you will win if you call, because it is your money already in the pot.

I disagree the BB is in the pot and available to be won, it's not like he can take it back.

He only has 2 options:
1) Pass
2) Call for 4800 to try and win the additional 7300 already out there.

[ariston]

I said I dont want to get into any further slanging matches tony...bad choice of words I can now see that. Now I am on the big blind I have to call 4800 and I am looking at a pot of 7300 (eg the money in the middle including his raise of 4800). This means I have to call a further 4800 to win 7300....its not rocket science mate (yes I already included the 800...it is included in the 7300 pot that is in the middle- 4800 to call)

[tikay]

Keeping these things calm & civil is one of those things about poker that mystifies me. Sit at a Final Table, good natured, bunch of mates, all having fun. The moment the word "business" is mentioned, they all grow horns, start snarling & swearing & shouting. Wotsamatterwivem?

[thetank]

Funny that it says it will discourage people nicking your blinds. It would encourage me if i was a shortstack and in need of a double up to raise your blinds as i maywell get called by a poor hand against my better than average hand.

I do agree with it generally as i sometimes make these weird calls and it really freaks the table out.

When you are a small stack, you'll be rooting for the big blind to fold far more often than you want a call. With a hand like AJo if I know the big blind would call with 47o I'd still prefer a fold. The play can be a good one as will discourage blind steals from most payers (including myself).

[Gamblor21]

I do have alot of respect for him ,however he can have a bad attitude i agree! I'm not one for rub downs etc at the table... maybe a bit of chat but all in good jest!

The thing is tony i don't think it is good for the game but the tv coverage that people watch seems to be focussed on the loudest people etc! Maybe they don't want to watch 9 silent poker players round a table!

They want the hellmuth The mouth tony g etc etc... The tv coverage we see gives the impression to new players that its good to do all those anticts! and that it is acceptable. First tourney i played in america i was shocked into silence with rubdowns table talk etc! Hopefully our game does'nt head down exactly the same route... But the game will still bring more people into it but we will have alot more of the screaming and shouting that goes with the ESPN coverage!

I did'nt see it and if i had i would've said something to him, i think he did try and apologise to you... but it is no excuse i suppose that he got over excited! The short tilme i have been playing i have not had to deal with many rubdowns etc! Many of the younger players at the mo do not really get into that ( me, jp, flushy calls everyone fish thats about all he can come up with) It s the older players that seem to set a bad example, and if time penalty's etc are'nt brought in then these incidents are only going to become more frequent!

Not sure whether i answered tony, more of a babble on!

In short i do think that new players will come into the game whether these things happen or not, they will just come in with the attitude that its ok to do it! Now whether outside sponsors come in thats another matter!

[Ironside]

once he puts it in the pot it is no longer his money

[Bongo]

But clearly he can win it - is that from a different situation here?

We're not counting the BB twice, if we don't class it as part of the pot where do we factor it in?

[wsopin07]

So what does everyone think of my table talk and excitement, I think the 888.com final is on today over there, maybe I will be the next player to be torn apart ??  I  dont consider myself as having BAD manners, what do you think?? I also defend Tony G!!

You should have listened to the B.S. that I was talking to the guy that won the 888.com when we were in the break area before we started heads up play, you would have SHIT!!!!!

Surrinder has no problem w/ Tony G in Paris last year, he could care less, Surrinder is a true pro and I think that says alot!

I dont want to play w/ 9 silent players, I think some people need to get a grip, this forum is for debating, learning, ect.

NOT TO PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and I am a little sick of some people that need to prove they are smarter or better than others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I am going to the bar to watch my replay of the WSOP on ESPN, What do you think about that? My WSOP show on ESPN

[Ironside]

no ariston has to call 4800 to win 4800 +2500
and get his 4800 stake back