STTs, Gettin' better '09

[thetank]

Everyone should have both messages now.

If you don't have two, I've ballsed up somehow.

[sovietsong]

Cooler/should have passed pre?

Full Tilt Poker Game #9831307636: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (74798291), Table 1 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:25:41 ET - 2009/01/03
Seat 1: MastaM86 (1,580)
Seat 3: sovietsong (2,205)
Seat 5: crt1477 (2,975)
Seat 6: dimdimdimdim (2,240)
sovietsong posts the small blind of 100
crt1477 posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sovietsong [ ]
dimdimdimdim calls 200
MastaM86 folds
sovietsong calls 100
crt1477 checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
sovietsong bets 400
crt1477 folds
dimdimdimdim calls 400
*** TURN *** [ ] []
sovietsong bets 1,605, and is all in
dimdimdimdim calls 1,605
sovietsong shows [ ]
dimdimdimdim shows [ ]
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
sovietsong shows two pair, Queens and Tens
dimdimdimdim shows a straight, Queen high
dimdimdimdim wins the pot (4,610) with a straight, Queen high
sovietsong stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,610 | Rake 0
Board: [ ]
Seat 1: MastaM86 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: sovietsong (small blind) showed [ ] and lost with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 5: crt1477 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: dimdimdimdim showed [ ] and won (4,610) with a straight, Queen high

[thetank]

I assume this is a 6-max game?

Call seems fine.

[sovietsong]

I assume this is a 6-max game?

Call seems fine.

6 Max is correct. I was doubting myself there! 

[WYSINWYG]

No escape, so many other hands that you crush are calling the all-in as well, so playing it differently is probably -EV for your stack.
I would probably play it differently if I had 3,500 chips tho.

[gatso]

1st session today, myself and tank had a 45 minute chat whilst watching a $38 stt on stars. while it was useful we thought it wasn't the ideal format for a few reasons

-so few hands go to showdown early on so you don't get to see what people are playing
-we wanted to do a bit of hand reading but it's difficult at the speed a tourney moves at plus as above you don't get to see what they're playing
-our game selection was most unfortunate. after the first hand which went limp, raise, call, call, call pf it looked like there might be a lot of action but from hand 2 onwards it turned into the tightest game ever until the blinds had got quite high so we didn't have 2 much to discuss early on

we did get some good discussions going towards the end, from about 6 handed, about our own ranges in certain positions compared to the players we were watching. it's good to get someone elses opinion on decisions that you normally make automatically

3 particularly interesting points were

- the play of seat 1 who was superb while 6 and 5 handed, shoving at all the right moments, before completely shutting up shop on the bubble and finally finishing 4th. a textbook example of why laddering is bad. wish I'd got the hh. do you remember the tourney no. tank?
-just how bad people's bubble play is in general. the amount of standard 3x raises being made when everyone was at 10-12bb was amazing. even more amazing was that they were 3xing and then passing to shoves
-the number of atc shoves that people pass up

so as I said, while this was useful it's not the ideal format.

tank and longy also had a convo earlier which hopefully one of them will tell you about. they went for the format of running through a tournament history that they'd both had time to study. this looks like being the way forward if we continue with this, running through a tourney in a replayer allows you to spend the right amount of time discussing each hand, an option you don't have when working in real time, and allows you to see more cards.

it would be good to get more people involved, I can see this being very useful

[TightEnd]

-just how bad people's bubble play is in general. the amount of standard 3x raises being made when everyone was at 10-12bb was amazing. even more amazing was that they were 3xing and then passing to shoves

nice post


they should just be pushing, exerting maximum pressure, in my quoted exercpt of your post?

[gatso]

-just how bad people's bubble play is in general. the amount of standard 3x raises being made when everyone was at 10-12bb was amazing. even more amazing was that they were 3xing and then passing to shoves

nice post


they should just be pushing, exerting maximum pressure, in my quoted exercpt of your post?

it was interesting that the player making these 3x raises the most was a profitable supernova. the first couple of times we were wondering if it was to induce a shove but when the next couple of times they passed to a shove we figured they were just bad

[Cf]

it would be good to get more people involved, I can see this being very useful

I'm interested in getting involved in this

[gatso]

it would be good to get more people involved, I can see this being very useful

I'm interested in getting involved in this

cool, I'll send you a copy of the pm tank sent out with details

[thetank]

Nice post there gatso, I'm afraid I don't remember the number of the tournament in question, sorry

Yeah, from today I've found that the hand history review format seemed to be more beneficial.

I would agree that the problem lies in the pacing of the observed tournament. Things happen way too slowly, and then things happen way too quickly. I might miss what happened in a given hand that gatso wanted to talk about because I was busy talking about the last hand, etc etc. It's difficult for both parties to concentrate their thoughts on the same hand at the same time.



Longy was talking about the possibility of group sessions, as well as a kind of round robin 1 on 1 discussion group. Both really good ideas as far as I'm concerned.

Group sessions would probably work well if chaired by someone who could move the discussion on to the next hand when necessary.

I'm pretty hot for the group sessions idea coz they can be a bit more casual. You can show up or not to a group session and it's not a big deal, the show goes on without you whereas it kinda doesn't in a 1 on 1 discussion.

[thetank]

it would be good to get more people involved, I can see this being very useful

I'm interested in getting involved in this

cool, I'll send you a copy of the pm tank sent out with details

should mention that although pm mentions two options,  review of a hand history or observing a tournament in progress, I've kinda gone cold on the observing tournament idea after seeing the other way work so much better.

You also may prefer to wait for a group discussion that I'll be getting around to organizing a pilot for very soon.

[Linux]

it would be good to get more people involved, I can see this being very useful

I'm interested in getting involved in this

cool, I'll send you a copy of the pm tank sent out with details

should mention that although pm mentions two options,  review of a hand history or observing a tournament in progress, I've kinda gone cold on the observing tournament idea after seeing the other way work so much better.

You also may prefer to wait for a group discussion that I'll be getting around to organizing a pilot for very soon.

I wouldnt mind checking this out.

Cheers

[Robert HM]

Also very interested, if I can fit my odd working hours around you. Any chance of the PMs please?

[thetank]

I should probably work something up on the thread, rather than keep sending out these mad pms.

The beurocracy of it all, I'm going to have a pack of Quavers and a think for a minute.