Painful river bet by the villian

[Newmanseye]

Level III (25/50) - 2009/01/17 19:25:25 ET
Table '134707090 4' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: newmanseye (4670 in chips)
Seat 3: donnie 44444 (1860 in chips)
Seat 4: TahoePrice (1655 in chips)
Seat 5: outkicked83 (1745 in chips)
Seat 6: osiris7777 (2560 in chips)
Seat 7: Beni613 (415 in chips)
Seat 8: Polska Jotz (1035 in chips)
Seat 9: digu31 (2990 in chips)
digu31: posts small blind 25
newmanseye: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to newmanseye [ ]
donnie 44444: folds
TahoePrice: folds
outkicked83: raises 150 to 200
osiris7777: folds
Beni613: folds
Polska Jotz: calls 200
digu31: folds
newmanseye: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [ ]
newmanseye: checks
outkicked83: checks
Polska Jotz: checks
*** TURN *** [ ] []
newmanseye: bets 100
outkicked83: calls 100
Polska Jotz: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
newmanseye: bets 100
outkicked83: folds
Polska Jotz: raises 635 to 735 and is all-in

I have been my usual Hyper active self on the table and Polska have been involved in more than his share of pots, Now this river raise has me confused.  Can we call with confidence?

Opinions please  ( btw i know i have played the hand badly )

[mondatoo]

I hate the turn bet, I hate the river bet even more,Then i fold as ur literally beaten nothing

[GreekStein]

Checking is ok on the flop as I assume ur checkraising, though I may just lead here anyway.

The turn bet is terrible - 100 into 600. River bet horrible too as mondatoo said.
What's your thinking here?

[Newmanseye]

Sorry thats info you should have had, I had taken down pots with insanely small bets in to pots as had other people at the table, and given the limits anyone that had a hand was usually reraising 1.5 x the pot. its been an unusual table  ( tourney ). so the bet is info / claim the pot cheap bet.

i did say i played this badly btw.  The chap in question has been caught bluffing however, i had seen him float a few times to the river and raise and not be called.  hence i am working through is this a bluff as usual or does he have the Jack, I discount the K and the Q as i believe i would have been raised off these early

[GreekStein]

To me your first paragraph reads a bit like 'everyone was betting and playing like a donk so i decided to join the party and play bad too'. I hope that isn't interpreted as harsh - I'm just trying to say that regardless of how other people were playing you should be betting as normal and trying to build the pot here, esp as so many hands can outdraw you.

On the river there are 3 possibilites. He has us beat. It's a tie. Or its an outright bluff. Normally I would overrule the last one but seeing as your betting really doesn't correlate with a normally strong hand he may be inclined to push here, especially as you say, he bluffs a lot. I would expect us to be beat a lot here or chopping but I don't hate a call - I'm just not a fan of the action that led to the river although I think I may have mentioned that lol

[gatso]

raise to 1034 pf and then pass to polska jotz's allin

it's the only way I can think of to play it worse

pass the river as played. you've somehow got this far at the cost of only 400, be thankful

[EvilPie]

On the river there are 3 possibilites. He has us beat. It's a tie. Or its an outright bluff.

Get away....

Well that's that sorted then  

[Newmanseye]

raise to 1034 pf and then pass to polska jotz's allin

it's the only way I can think of to play it worse

pass the river as played. you've somehow got this far at the cost of only 400, be thankful

So your answer to the original question is?  Btw i already know I played the hand badly, This I can see for myself,  I was asking can we call and feel confident.

[Newmanseye]

To me your first paragraph reads a bit like 'everyone was betting and playing like a donk so i decided to join the party and play bad too'. I hope that isn't interpreted as harsh - I'm just trying to say that regardless of how other people were playing you should be betting as normal and trying to build the pot here, esp as so many hands can outdraw you.

You are right here I did decide to "play badly" however I was adjusting to the tables, I saw chances to get in to pots cheaop with trash and possibly flop nice hands, as well as get away from hands when we are beat nice and cheap.

[mondatoo]

raise to 1034 pf and then pass to polska jotz's allin

it's the only way I can think of to play it worse

pass the river as played. you've somehow got this far at the cost of only 400, be thankful

So your answer to the original question is?  Btw i already know I played the hand badly, This I can see for myself,  I was asking can we call and feel confident.

No how could that ever be the case ? I wasn't going to say it but as greekstein says to put it bluntly playing bad because your opponents play shit is just not good mate

[gatso]

raise to 1034 pf and then pass to polska jotz's allin

it's the only way I can think of to play it worse

pass the river as played. you've somehow got this far at the cost of only 400, be thankful

So your answer to the original question is?  Btw i already know I played the hand badly, This I can see for myself,  I was asking can we call and feel confident.

answered already above, reason below

you're only beating a bluff and this is not a good spot to bluff

if you pass and oppo shows complete air then that's fine, they obv suck, just take their chips later when they next screw up

[Horneris]

check/fold the turn and the river.

[boldie]

check/fold the turn and the river.

This.

The "Can we call and feel confident" question is nuts.

[MC]

If you thought there was a reasonable chance the 100 bet would take the pot down on the turn, I'm not gonna fault you too much.

But the 100 bet on the river works here approx 0% of the time, and when he shoves I don't understand why you thought you even had a decision here?

You do realise your 2 pair 9's and 10's has been counterfeited right?

[EvilPie]

To me your first paragraph reads a bit like 'everyone was betting and playing like a donk so i decided to join the party and play bad too'. I hope that isn't interpreted as harsh - I'm just trying to say that regardless of how other people were playing you should be betting as normal and trying to build the pot here, esp as so many hands can outdraw you.

You are right here I did decide to "play badly" however I was adjusting to the tables, I saw chances to get in to pots cheaop with trash and possibly flop nice hands, as well as get away from hands when we are beat nice and cheap.

There's your answer. You found it yourself. I hope you passed otherwise you've made this bit up.