To be or not to be: Rulings

[AlrightJack]

Hi Barry,

I'm not aware of this satellite deal situation I'm afraid so I can't comment on it without knowing the full story. I will get back to you on this.

[vinni]

its not a problem john.

[AlrightJack]

btw well done on your award john 

Thanks Barry. It was really not just an award for me, it was for everyone on the GUKPT. Zak, Ian, Dena, Janis, Russell, Mike, the dealers, valets, casino staff, everyone involved with making the tour happen at Blue Square and Rank and those people who used to work on it and have now left all deserve recognition as well.

Of course without the players there would of course be no tour, so it is to all the players of the GUKPT that I dedicate this award.

[Colchester Kev]

btw well done on your award john 

Thanks Barry. It was really not just an award for me, it was for everyone on the GUKPT. Zak, Ian, Dena, Janis, Russell, Mike, the dealers, valets, casino staff, everyone involved with making the tour happen at Blue Square and Rank and those people who used to work on it and have now left all deserve recognition as well.

Of course without the players there would of course be no tour, so it is to all the players of the GUKPT that I dedicate this award.

TUT you forgot the railers Raaby, Im sick of you not giving us any credit !!!

[Forrester]

if a player says if you bet I'm going to fold and then after a bet tries to call what would the ruling be?

[Ironside]

if a player says if you bet I'm going to fold and then after a bet tries to call what would the ruling be?

hand folded both players thrown out for collusion

well maybe not but the first time it happened would have all the players with gags on in future

[kukushkin88]

he has to fold, obv. Rubbish rule but it's clear enough now John has explained it.

[vinni]

why would a player say if you bet I'm going to fold ?.
he must be a proper plank.

[hugob055]

errrr for the reason ironside stated.........plankety plank

[Forrester]

A player sometimes says if I bet are you going to call?
You then ,inducing him to bet ( or inducing him not to bet) , say - if you bet I will fold.

[JoeBeevers]

You might find these interesting. We have a feature on the Mob site where we put various scenarios to a panel of well known tournament directors and these ones here might give a clearer idea on this situation.

I realise that mods on Blonde don't usually allow links and I wouldn't usually post links, if you prefer I am happy for the mods to post the full articles in this thread as I do think that having all the top TDs opinion on this will help Jon and the GUKPT to rule on this in the future.

If You Raise I Will Go All-in
http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director2/if_you_raise_i_will_go_all-in


When is Verbal Action Valid?
http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director2/when_is_verbal_action_valid

...and this one is for Barry on when one player objects to a deal:
http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director/deals_and_collusion.html

[iorek]

Firstly Steve is a top bloke.

The way I see this before it spun out of control is Juicy tried to stop Steve from raising or raising too much, Steve has a very good hand, he is the short stack in the hand. Once the banter is finished he decides to put his tournament on the line with the expectation that he is being called. In effect he is calling all in. So then what, he just gets the limped chips or chip? Yeah that would be fare. Would he waste a premium hand without the banter being initiated by Juicy? Nope
The whole mucking and 70 minutes sounds horrendous but my guess is that Juicy didn't want to call (obviously) and was not willing to put his chips in especially once he mucked his cards.

Sounds to me that the Paul King sat was just that they made up the money to get an extra seat without Paul contributing, nothing wrong with that.

I had someone act out of turn when heads up in a comp. On the turn I picked up a flush draw to go with my bottom pair. Having decided how much to bet and while reaching for chips the other player says all in. The dealer also a card room manager said it stands. I pass and get shown a bluff. This was a stroke and there was no recourse or anything in the rules to prevent it  back then (06). I think that all out of turn action whether accidental or not should result in that player only being allowed to call for he rest of the hand.

Mickey Wernick this evening answered his phone while in the big blind the dealer politely told him you can't make any action, Mickey the gent he is just nodded. Perfect, dealer saw the infringement and ruled.   

 

[celtic]

The situation with Paul King at Brighton was this.... 6 players left and 4 seats and £660 for 5th. Paul was chip leader by quite a way and a few of the players wanted to split the £660 between 5th & 6th. Paul didn't want this to happen as it changes the way the short stacks would play. The other players then decided amongst themselves that they would just chop the £660 between 5th & 6th regardless of what Paul wanted, and if Paul finished 6th he wouldn't be entitled to the any of the money as he didn't want to do a saver. sure enough the short stacks started pushing and all of a sudden Paul was no longer chip leader. Then Paul was back in on the saver. ( i think the other players invited him back in rather than him asking to be put back) I think he went out 5th and got £330.

[iorek]

Oh that kind of sucks

[ariston]

The situation with Paul King at Brighton was this.... 6 players left and 4 seats and £660 for 5th. Paul was chip leader by quite a way and a few of the players wanted to split the £660 between 5th & 6th. Paul didn't want this to happen as it changes the way the short stacks would play. The other players then decided amongst themselves that they would just chop the £660 between 5th & 6th regardless of what Paul wanted, and if Paul finished 6th he wouldn't be entitled to the any of the money as he didn't want to do a saver. sure enough the short stacks started pushing and all of a sudden Paul was no longer chip leader. Then Paul was back in on the saver. ( i think the other players invited him back in rather than him asking to be put back) I think he went out 5th and got £330.

if thats the way it happened its disgracefull. If one player objects to a deal then no deal can be done.

If the others all decide to deal anyway its collusion and a precident was set a few years ago in blackpool when something happened similar. 5 players left in blackpool event and a deal is discussed but turned down by chip leader- both shorties then agree they will split whatever they get. TD rules both must do a deal now or be disqualified so the cl agrees new deal where he asks for silly money and shorties get 5th and 4th between them without any chance to push.

in this scenario i think paul should have been automatically awarded 1st prize (one of the seats) as the other 5 players have technically colluded by doing the deal anyway. This would mean they are now playing for 3 seats and the 2 prizes- up to them if they want to do the same deal now with the remaining cash.