JJ 200 bbs deep

[Cf]

Home cash game, 25p/50p blinds. Hero and Villian are both sat deep with £100 each.

It is late in the evening, a couple of players have busted out, and one has gone to bed, leaving us with 4 players remaining.

Both Hero and Villian have been playing quite loose and aggressive. Hero has lost a couple of big pots with questionable holdings (that weren't shown to the rest of the table), eg 55 being good on a QQQ8 board all in on the turn. Villian started the game as a bit of a maniac, getting involved in big pots, but again not showing cards. There was one pot however where he 4bet preflop with 55 and hit a full house.

Player A (played quite tight all night) raises to £1.50.
Hero raises to £4.50 with  on the button
Villian raises to £14 in the SB
BB/Player A fold
Hero calls

Flop: 

Villian bets £22
Hero ....


So 2 questions here.
1) Is the preflop call correct? Should we be raising?
2) What do we do on the flop?

[daviebhoy]

1) Is the preflop call correct? Should we be raising?

I would raise here usually and only call to trap which is a danerous thing to be doing with JJ.

2) What do we do on the flop?

The line you have taken seems to be trappy so you could just call him down and try to get it all in on the turn if you still think you are ahead. If you raise here you are not often getting called by a worse hand which is why you should have raised pre. Folding isn't really an option either.

[NoflopsHomer]

Call pre is just about ok to set mine. Fold now.

[daviebhoy]

Call pre is just about ok to set mine. Fold now.

4 handed against someone who has 4-bet 55 already ?

[NoflopsHomer]

Call pre is just about ok to set mine. Fold now.

4 handed against someone who has 4-bet 55 already ?

Villain is 4-betting a very tight player still to act. I think giving him credit for a hand here is probably correct.

[daviebhoy]

Villain is 4-betting a very tight player still to act. I think giving him credit for a hand here is probably correct.

Tight player folded pre surely and we are heads up with villain or am I reading this wrong ?

Player A (played quite tight all night) raises to £1.50.
Hero raises to £4.50 with JJ  on the button
Villian raises to £14 in the SB
BB/Player A fold

As played we are either way ahead or way behind so passive play probably best here and JJ is likely good.

[GreekStein]

If he's a nutter and 4-betting 55 I'm happy to 5-bet pre here with JJ. Home games tend to have a massively different dynamic to normal cash games and I don't think it'll necessarily make him fold out any worse hands.

As played fold flop.

[daviebhoy]

When his range here is so large why do we fold flop to his continuation bet ? Is it because he likely won the hand or else it wouldn't be up here :-) We are only really worried about seven hands QQ+, 44, 66, AQ and KQ. Are we that convinced he has one of them ?

[Cf]

As for what happened:

Villian calls

Turn:   

Villian goes all in
Hero calls

Villian tables 


I reversed the roles in this hand. It was me holding AQ. I was somewhat suprised that JJ had called me down all the way for such a massive pot, as I was struggling to put myself on a range that he could beat. daviebhoy lists 7 hands I could have (though i'm prob not 4betting KQ). But what else could I be holding? 77-TT,AK?

On reflection I probably got this action via my earlier 4bet with 55. This wasn't because I'm a nutter as such lol, it was simply me playing back at the player who 3bet early in the evening as I thought a) he'll fold, and b) it might deter him from doing it quite so often (he was sat immediately to my right).

My range in this spot would usually be very tight, with AQ usually not in this range at all. My earlier play probably led to this hand playing out how it did.

[daviebhoy]

But what else could I be holding? 77-TT,AK?

If you are going to 4-bet AQ and 55 then why not 44 and AJ ? I don't see why you should get respect for having a narrow range here.

There are a couple of questions though - Were you calling/raising a 5-bet pre-flop ? What did you have opponent on when you called his all-in if you were surprised he had JJ ? If he doesn't have JJ then the only hands that make sense are QQ+ or a set surely and you should be folding the turn to his push.

[GreekStein]

imo your friend played it bad. I would 5-ball it hard in your eye if I'd seen you 4-bet 55

[Cf]

But what else could I be holding? 77-TT,AK?

If you are going to 4-bet AQ and 55 then why not 44 and AJ ? I don't see why you should get respect for having a narrow range here.

There are a couple of questions though - Were you calling/raising a 5-bet pre-flop ? What did you have opponent on when you called his all-in if you were surprised he had JJ ? If he doesn't have JJ then the only hands that make sense are QQ+ or a set surely and you should be folding the turn to his push.

The 4bet preflop was made mainly because I didn't want to play OOP in a 3bet pot with AQ, especially with the original raiser still to act. I felt the raise would help me more easily define the hands. If the OR 5bets (which i'm pretty happy he would definitely do with QQ+/AK) then I'm happy that I'm behind and can get out, without getting into trouble with a flop. I'm less worried about the villian here as he's a more loose player - but I probably still fold to a 5bet by him. Given the deep stacks I decided he would probably 5bet with a monster himself. A bluff at this stage is unlikely, but this particular player is certainly capable of it.

Once he called I am obviously happy with the flop, and it became one of those situations of if he has a better hand then so be it.

My postflop bets were for value, and I was obviously delighted that they got called. But I was still a little bit suprised that they were. Given the betting action and the flop, I wouldn't expect to get too much money out of JJ here, and really wasn't expecting the entire stacks.

Does all of my thinking there make sense? Any critiques? Esp with regards to the 4bet, I'm not used to playing this deep..

[Cf]

Oh, and a clarification to the previous post's quote. It was me with the AQ who bet out on both streets. I didn't call the pushes with it.

[Cf]

imo your friend played it bad. I would 5-ball it hard in your eye if I'd seen you 4-bet 55

lol, i love that expression

[daviebhoy]

You said he pushed and you called in your post :

"Hero goes all in
Villian calls

Villian tables AQ"

I think the hand was played horribly by both players and I really don't understand your thinking, "if he has a better hand then so be it." when you can't think of a single hand you can beat when you push all-in.