Thread Temporarily Removed.......

[ItsMrAlex2u]

... Add to that the fact the guy is just walking away from you with his hands in his pockets, minding his own business, and you are an officer of the law. ...

That's not how I interpreted the image even in the video.

It takes a bit of reading between the lines, but

my impression was that the police were herding protesters, this guy was deliberately getting in their way to slow them down and block them.
EDIT: ie stop them doing their job

There's no doubt the police officer was in the wrong, but my impression was he just got impatient with this guys tactics and stepped out of line to push him 'out of the way' rather than push him over.

You can achieve a lot with selective editing - it may be that the policeman just fancied hurting someone but generally speaking most people don't 'accidentally' get caught up in a protest.

I agree with this post.



That is all.

Unedited footage:



"this guy was deliberately getting in their way to slow them down and block them"?

"stepped out of line to push him 'out of the way rather than push him over."?

Not sure that's my interpretation from the footage.

I guess my interpretation is different than yours. 

Another heated debate on the way?  I wonder if we can get the 'Thread Temporarily Removed.......' Thread removed.

Not really sure how you can interpret this in a good way TBH.

In the same way that when there are protests, there are always trouble makers that join in just for s scrap.....Whenever the police break out the riot gear, some of the more vicious, nasty piece of work coppers use it as an excuse to blatantly batter anyone that gets in their way.

In this incident, Mr Tomlinson is almost certianly being a drunken pain in the ass to the coppers, but the copper has no excuse for the batton to the back of the legs and the very forceful shove in the back of a guy with hands in his pockets, walking away with his back to the copper.

Does the copper deserve to face man slaughter charges? No
Common assault or similar charges and formal internal disciplinary? Yes

[thetank]

Those like me that blame the rioters for making it necessary to have riot police won't change their mind

I think some of them might change their mind if an opera singer was to visit their house and sing a version of Pavarotti's cantando la canción de Figaro, but change the words figaro for video.

Or if they were to actually watch the video.

The walking home from work line is a bit suss, but the images speak for themselves.

[thetank]

Does the copper deserve to face man slaughter charges? No
Common assault or similar charges and formal internal disciplinary? Yes

Manslaughter comprehension fail

[Somerled]

Does the copper deserve to face man slaughter charges? No
Common assault or similar charges and formal internal disciplinary? Yes

Manslaughter comprehension fail

Have to disagree I'm afraid. Nothing I've seen would justify a charge of manslaughter (or culpable homicide as we call it up here). Whether the copper deserves to be charged with that is an entirely different matter.

[boldie]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.


The push looks a bit much ..but the guy was deliberately bing a pain the arse...you can see that from the video...If riot police with dogs start showing up and move towards a group of protesters whilst telling you to get out of the way...anyone who is not being a tosser moves out of the way a fair bit faster. An generally riot olice tend not to feck about when people get in the way. "Excuse me Sir, we've already told you twice to move...could you now saunter over a bit faster?", doesn't work,"Get out the way you fecking halfwit!" and a little shove however, does.

[ItsMrAlex2u]

Does the copper deserve to face man slaughter charges? No
Common assault or similar charges and formal internal disciplinary? Yes

Manslaughter comprehension fail

I disagree, there is now way you can say that pushing someone over warrants a manslaughter charge if they unexpectedly die, but the aggressive shove and batton to the back of the legs was waaaaay OTT for the situation.

If he was p1ssed and being a pain, arrest him for drunk and dissorderly and be done with it.

Just aggresive bullying, which ever way you dress it up.

[Jon MW]

lol @ that being the unedited version.

It was edited because it starts too late - ducy?

He had a crowd of police including a police dog right behind him, he was clearly part of the protest and not just on his way home, otherwise he would have moved.

As has been said above the police officer is almost certainly guilty of misconduct.

But if you think that's evidence of manslaughter - then you must think the man himself was guilty of suicide, after all there have been plenty of eye witness accounts saying he was drinking all day. I'm pretty sure that would have more of an effect on a heart condition than being pushed over.

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.


The push looks a bit much ..but the guy was deliberately bing a pain the arse...you can see that from the video...If riot police with dogs start showing up and move towards a group of protesters whilst telling you to get out of the way...anyone who is not being a tosser moves out of the way a fair bit faster. An generally riot olice tend not to feck about when people get in the way. "Excuse me Sir, we've already told you twice to move...could you now saunter over a bit faster?", doesn't work,"Get out the way you fecking halfwit!" and a little shove however, does.

And echoing what Boldie says - and what I said earlier - you don't 'accidentally' get caught up in a riot or a protest.

[Claw75]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.


The push looks a bit much ..but the guy was deliberately bing a pain the arse...you can see that from the video...If riot police with dogs start showing up and move towards a group of protesters whilst telling you to get out of the way...anyone who is not being a tosser moves out of the way a fair bit faster. An generally riot olice tend not to feck about when people get in the way. "Excuse me Sir, we've already told you twice to move...could you now saunter over a bit faster?", doesn't work,"Get out the way you fecking halfwit!" and a little shove however, does.

I've only just got round to watching the video, and I concur with the hirsuite german midget and the cross-dressing greyhound owner.

[ItsMrAlex2u]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.


The push looks a bit much ..but the guy was deliberately bing a pain the arse...you can see that from the video...If riot police with dogs start showing up and move towards a group of protesters whilst telling you to get out of the way...anyone who is not being a tosser moves out of the way a fair bit faster. An generally riot olice tend not to feck about when people get in the way. "Excuse me Sir, we've already told you twice to move...could you now saunter over a bit faster?", doesn't work,"Get out the way you fecking halfwit!" and a little shove however, does.

I've only just got round to watching the video, and I concur with the hirsuite german midget and the cross-dressing greyhound owner.

LoL

[action man]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

this is my stance on this also. Its very bad that the chap died, but a sure fire way to avoid trouble is to not be there.

[taximan007]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

this is my stance on this also. Its very bad that the chap died, but a sure fire way to avoid trouble is to not be there.

This

[G1BTW]

Mass civil liberties and manslaughter comprehension fail.

[Claw75]

Mass civil liberties and manslaughter comprehension fail.

I comprehend both perfectly well tyvm - my view on this case is based on what I saw in the video.  I appreciate if I'd been there and seen the whole picture that might be different.

[G1BTW]

Mass civil liberties and manslaughter comprehension fail.

I comprehend both perfectly well tyvm - my view on this case is based on what I saw in the video.  I appreciate if I'd been there and seen the whole picture that might be different.

Vid is enough for me. Seems perfectly clear that a swift baton strike to the back of the legs followed by a lunging shove to someone with their back to me, with their hands in their pockets, is going to cause them to fall over. Enough cases already of people falling to the ground having been punched etc and striking their heads that have turned into manslaughter cases. With the hands in the pockets, most reasonable people would expect the victim to fall to the ground, possibly sustaining very serious injuries by striking their head. Anyone who looks at the footage and interprets the shove as an attempt to cajole him or move him along; or interprets the man as 'blocking the path of the policemen', should have gone to Specsavers, imo.
There is a good CCTV trail of the victim now, appears that he was on his way home from work.
The victim died shortly afterwards, it may be hard to prove in court that the officer shoving him to the ground caused the stress/dislodged the thrombus that led to his heart attack 5 minutes later, but I think it's pretty likely that this was the cause. The police officer wanting to cause his death is not a prerequisite for a manslaughter charge. It's not even a prerequisite for a murder charge...

[G1BTW]

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.

I've only just got round to watching the video, and I concur with the hirsuite german midget and the cross-dressing greyhound owner.

Mass civil liberties and manslaughter comprehension fail.

I comprehend both perfectly well tyvm

Why does the push in no way justify a manslaughter charge? How can they not prove that he died from that/because of that push?