Playing back

[nirvana]

Don't know if much to analyse here but if people have a line they think works better I'd appreciate some input

Live tourney, 14 left, blinds 800-1600, RA 200. Player to my right, young aggressive, some think maniac, I think good (played with him a couple of times). He's on the button and rearely leaves an unopened pot unopened.  I have around 55K, him 50K. He's shown an ability to make moves on all streets - like I mentioned, I think he's good and capable of outplaying me, more with a hammer stylee than panache.

He raises to 4200 on the button, I look down at  . I won't draw things out - I shove, he calls - he has QQ, call me a doctor !

Would like to know if people think there's a more optimal way of playing this hand or is the line pretty standard - I really have no idea hence the question as I'd like to keep learning.

[Longy]

Hmmm i suppose you maybe a bit too deep to shove, i would probably make a small 3bet (say about 11k) attempting to induce him to shove a weaker hand. Bascially im not folding and i don't hate shoving.

[George2Loose]

Don't know if much to analyse here but if people have a line they think works better I'd appreciate some input

Live tourney, 14 left, blinds 800-1600, RA 200. Player to my right, young aggressive, some think maniac, I think good (played with him a couple of times). He's on the button and rearely leaves an unopened pot unopened.  I have around 55K, him 50K. He's shown an ability to make moves on all streets - like I mentioned, I think he's good and capable of outplaying me, more with a hammer stylee than panache.

He raises to 4200 on the button, I look down at  . I won't draw things out - I shove, he calls - he has QQ, call me a doctor !

Would like to know if people think there's a more optimal way of playing this hand or is the line pretty standard - I really have no idea hence the question as I'd like to keep learning.

standard. FWIW if he has 99 you get his stack. Just one of those things

[OESFD]

Agree with above. Even if you re-raise to 11-12k, he's probably gonna push at which point I'd find it hard to fold. If it was just on the bubble then I might lay it down.

[thetank]

I re-raise to 14,200 and call his shove

[nirvana]

Thanks for the responses chaps - as we all know it's easy to get a bit results oriented sometimes but I've played it back a few times. I think the only way I could fold here was pre and that wasn't going to happen. Against another player I am more likely to re-raise and then consider options if they shove. Good to get some opinions - thanks again.

[Simon Galloway]

I don't think you can bank on getting his stack if he has 99.  Its not unpassable.  How deep does it have to be before a 3bet and consider options is the better play?  I think this is deep enough, but I guess it boils down to what % of your stack you are prepared to leave behind in the middle if things turn ugly.  On the one hand, you don't have to make tough flop decisions against his range as you might if you 3 bet and get called.  On the other, you don't have to worry about a fist pump shove from BB (assuming hero is sb here) - or maybe people are advocating calling that eventuality too.  But surely when you shove, he folds the worst of his range and you pick up 4200 + blinds and antes, albeit you have done so at Harrod's prices.  When he can call your shove, it is more polarised than his full range (SURELY?) and you are a flip or in trouble more often than you are dominating his hand.  TT is infront of his opening range, but we can't be that confident we are crushing what he can call your 10X + push with?

[George2Loose]

I don't think you can bank on getting his stack if he has 99.  Its not unpassable.  How deep does it have to be before a 3bet and consider options is the better play?  I think this is deep enough, but I guess it boils down to what % of your stack you are prepared to leave behind in the middle if things turn ugly.  On the one hand, you don't have to make tough flop decisions against his range as you might if you 3 bet and get called.  On the other, you don't have to worry about a fist pump shove from BB (assuming hero is sb here) - or maybe people are advocating calling that eventuality too.  But surely when you shove, he folds the worst of his range and you pick up 4200 + blinds and antes, albeit you have done so at Harrod's prices.  When he can call your shove, it is more polarised than his full range (SURELY?) and you are a flip or in trouble more often than you are dominating his hand.  TT is infront of his opening range, but we can't be that confident we are crushing what he can call your 10X + push with?

I think with the stack sizes and blinds the money goes in with 99 on the button and 10 10 in the big blind whether it's 3/4/5 betting etc etc

[Royal Flush]

I don't think you can bank on getting his stack if he has 99.  Its not unpassable.  How deep does it have to be before a 3bet and consider options is the better play?  I think this is deep enough, but I guess it boils down to what % of your stack you are prepared to leave behind in the middle if things turn ugly.  On the one hand, you don't have to make tough flop decisions against his range as you might if you 3 bet and get called.  On the other, you don't have to worry about a fist pump shove from BB (assuming hero is sb here) - or maybe people are advocating calling that eventuality too.  But surely when you shove, he folds the worst of his range and you pick up 4200 + blinds and antes, albeit you have done so at Harrod's prices.  When he can call your shove, it is more polarised than his full range (SURELY?) and you are a flip or in trouble more often than you are dominating his hand.  TT is infront of his opening range, but we can't be that confident we are crushing what he can call your 10X + push with?

Exactly why you 3 bet small to induce a light 4.

[nirvana]

Thanks Simon, the point regarding TT rarely dominating what he can call with is something I'll ponder. Having said that, I didn't really think I was dominating his range - just thought I was ahead of his range.

I'm not too unhappy the way I played it, but I think I played it that way for perhaps the wrong reasons. 1) I did want to find an opportunity to play back to settle things down & 2) I thought I was ahead and didn't fancy playing down the streets with him OOP with a vulnerable holding.  Being reasonably self aware of my ability & limitations I was happy to flip or take what was there, not so happy to be crushed :-)

[thetank]

If he flats your 3 bet, crai any flop.

Impossible to get outplayed that way, very possible to go broke tho, but same is true of shipping pre.

[nirvana]

If he flats your 3 bet, crai any flop.

Impossible to get outplayed that way, very possible to go broke tho, but same is true of shipping pre.

I like this, would have looked and felt less spewy too - next time

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Horrible 3bet pre.

As people have said before I think you are forcing out 99. But if you 3bet normal he can ship in 99. Either way you get it in, but I don't think we can say this was standard so it doesn't matter, because your 3bet is nasty.

[LeedsRhodesy]

i would of rasied to 15k then when he pushed found it hard to fold!!

[thetank]

i would of rasied to 15k then when he pushed found it hard to fold!!

Because both of your hands are in the air?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeensta call to his 4-bet shove, snap his bollox off imo.