The Dean's thread

[thetank]

Got to admit this thread is a little surprising, some of the vitriol that has been directed at the Dean (who I know nothing about other than he is a writer ) has, IMHO been well out of order.

So what if he was trying to promote his work? he needs to sell so promotion is what writers do.  Making claims that a certain book is a 'landmark' is not uncommon amongst writers and publishers, key words are inserted to many descriptions of many products to give them an image, and hopefully to catch the public's attention.

Trying to discredit the guy on a public forum for no real reason other than to make yourself feel good is well out of order.  It has in my opinion been just like the schoolyard bully (camel) picking on the new kid whilst being cheered on by the rest of his class.

There are numerous ways of raising any questions you may have before going public, without laying them out as bait for the mob.

Dissapointing.

He was giving out advice that was innacurate, poorly thought out and in some cases downright dangerous for a new player to follow. If his strategy advice was decent, he would not have been called up on in this manner about minor things like a poor writing style or over pomping himself and his abilities/achievements.

If anyone comes onto this online community and starts giving out bad advice, the knowledgable people who frequent this forum will pipe in and explain why they think what is being said is wrong. If you think the purpose of this peer review process is purely to make ourselves feel better then I suspect your read may be off.

[OffTheRadar]

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with both sides here. The Camel pretty much hits the nail on the head about the way The Dean oversells himself (something I've felt for a long time as a reg at THMF but kept to myself) but I also see where tikay is coming from. I feel sorry for Carl if he's still reading this but I guess sometimes uncomfortable things need to be said for the good of the forum, aswell as for the sake of beginners who may not be able to tell the good advice from the bad. FWIW I think this thread reflects pretty well on the forum, more so than if it continued to promote sub-standard articles unchallenged by anyone.

edit - btw I don't want to look like I'm hiding behind a different alias here - this is Matt101 from THMF.

[action man]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

[ripple11]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

....and GreekStein ?? 

[GreekStein]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

....and GreekStein ?? 

lol was waiting for someone to say that.

If he wants though we've actually settled our differences of opinion and sorted it maturely.

[owen1923]

Got to admit this thread is a little surprising, some of the vitriol that has been directed at the Dean (who I know nothing about other than he is a writer ) has, IMHO been well out of order.

So what if he was trying to promote his work? he needs to sell so promotion is what writers do.  Making claims that a certain book is a 'landmark' is not uncommon amongst writers and publishers, key words are inserted to many descriptions of many products to give them an image, and hopefully to catch the public's attention.

Trying to discredit the guy on a public forum for no real reason other than to make yourself feel good is well out of order.  It has in my opinion been just like the schoolyard bully (camel) picking on the new kid whilst being cheered on by the rest of his class.

There are numerous ways of raising any questions you may have before going public, without laying them out as bait for the mob.

Dissapointing.

He was giving out advice that was innacurate, poorly thought out and in some cases downright dangerous for a new player to follow. If his strategy advice was decent, he would not have been called up on in this manner about minor things like a poor writing style or over pomping himself and his abilities/achievements.

If anyone comes onto this online community and starts giving out bad advice, the knowledgable people who frequent this forum will pipe in and explain why they think what is being said is wrong. If you think the purpose of this peer review process is purely to make ourselves feel better then I suspect your read may be off.

My read may be a little off, and I dont have a problem with peoples contribution to any forum being challenged and questioned.  The issue i have is the  level of personal abuse that is raised.  i am not saying that The dean did not fan the flames a little himself, and I am equally disappointed with his response to a similar thing on another forum, but I feel that far too many forum members are too quick to jump on a bandwagon and create and atmosphere that is pure hostility.

We should be a little more inclined to judge a player by the man he is, not the man by the player he is perceived to be.

[Micko]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

What time is the show on at? Gotta get a listen old Mick never holds back.

[tikay]

I liked this by Owen1923. (does "1923" mean born in 1923 - if so, it would figure - older peeps have different moral standards).

We should be a little more inclined to judge a player by the man he is, not the man by the player he is perceived to be.


I don't disagree with the varying opinions, & have already noted that I'm not a fan of Dean's writing. But that misses my (perhaps badly-made) point altogether.

I just feel very uncomfortable when the gang/mob mentality kicks in, as it does so often, with opinion shaped so readily these days by the street-cred gang. When 10 or 20 folks all get on a guy's case, it's a natural instinct for me to see that as wrong. We are only, after all, discussing a game, it's not like it's anything serious, poker is, as Phil Bull once said of horse-racing, a great irrevelancy in the greater scheme of things.

If I saw one of our known grimmers gettng a good hiding, I'd probably not be displeased. If I saw 20 guys all putting the boot in, I'd feel a need to defend him, to try & pull off the baying mob.

Probably wholly illogical, but it's just how I feel.

I'm quite happy to see The Dean - or anyone else - taken to task. But I'd rather it was done in a fair way, & not mob-handed.

[tikay]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

Will The Dean also be on?

[GreekStein]

I liked this by Owen1923. (does "1923" mean born in 1923 - if so, it would figure - older peeps have different moral standards).

We should be a little more inclined to judge a player by the man he is, not the man by the player he is perceived to be.


I don't disagree with the varying opinions, & have already noted that I'm not a fan of Dean's writing. But that misses my (perhaps badly-made) point altogether.

I just feel very uncomfortable when the gang/mob mentality kicks in, as it does so often, with opinion shaped so readily these days by the street-cred gang. When 10 or 20 folks all get on a guy's case, it's a natural instinct for me to see that as wrong. We are only, after all, discussing a game, it's not like it's anything serious, poker is, as Phil Bull once said of horse-racing, a great irrevelancy in the greater scheme of things.

If I saw one of our known grimmers gettng a good hiding, I'd probably not be displeased. If I saw 20 guys all putting the boot in, I'd feel a need to defend him, to try & pull off the baying mob.

Probably wholly illogical, but it's just how I feel.

I'm quite happy to see The Dean - or anyone else - taken to task. But I'd rather it was done in a fair way, & not mob-handed.

Well I'd agree in some instances but in this one I think you're wrong Tikay.

There was no gang mentality about it. Just a whole load of knowledgeable people who realise this guy is a joke when it comes to poker writing and said so.

[gatso]

one person being wrong and everyone else being right does not make it a mob mentality, it sometimes just means that the one person is very wrong. we're not going to get some people to take his side just to even out the numbers
 
the dean has always been perfectly aware of how bad his ideas and his writing is, it's been pointed out to him on numerous forums, probably everywhere that his stuff has appeared yet he chose to keep producing the same old stuff. when you write crap and people criticise you for it you should expect to be criticised again when you churn out more of the same crap and it's only natural in this situation that the criticism should snowball

I felt embarressed for blonde having the articles all over the front page and as I believe I pointed out at the time, probablly in the deleted thread, I felt sorry for any newcomers to the game coming to the site and seeing the articles as they would assume there was good advice in them

I'm pleased that this kicked off at the time as it meant the articles stopped being posted

none of this is a personal attack on the guy and I'd be happy to explain it to him in person

[GreekStein]

one person being wrong and everyone else being right does not make it a mob mentality, it sometimes just means that the one person is very wrong. we're not going to get some people to take his side just to even out the numbers
 
the dean has always been perfectly aware of how bad his ideas and his writing is, it's been pointed out to him on numerous forums, probably everywhere that his stuff has appeared yet he chose to keep producing the same old stuff. when you write crap and people criticise you for it you should expect to be criticised again when you churn out more of the same crap and it's only natural in this situation that the criticism should snowball

I felt embarressed for blonde having the articles all over the front page and as I believe I pointed out at the time, probablly in the deleted thread, I felt sorry for any newcomers to the game coming to the site and seeing the articles as they would assume there was good advice in them

I'm pleased that this kicked off at the time as it meant the articles stopped being posted

none of this is a personal attack on the guy and I'd be happy to explain it to him in person

Great post.

Exactly how I feel. Wp gattersly.

[GreekStein]

Oh and some of the hendon mob Dean fanboys have tried to lynch me and I'm heavily outnumbered but....

[   ] CARE.

[The Camel]

Got to disagree with the old fella here.

If Carl was giving his articles free with no ulterior motive I would agree with you. But it clearly wasn't the case here. Carl was trying to sell his wares like Delboy at Peckham Market. Someone trying to sell something is entitled to face questioning.

I have looked back through the thread and it was Carl who started the personal abuse, not me.

I had no axe to grind and still don't. I just think the vast majority of Carl's writing is pure unadulterated rubbish.

[ripple11]

mick mccool just rung me to tell me he's gonna be on the poker show tonight, and will be talking about the dean.

Will The Dean also be on?

Mick gave him a great build up.....they are going to invite him on.