NEW Tax on Poker for Casino's

[ripple11]

Or make the rake lower, but charge an entrance fee, more for drinks, seating charges (so they're not tied to poker), etc.  Not sure on what can or can't be done though.

^^^^^^^
Thats how DTD will get around it £50 + £0 to play and move the rake on to the door so you play to enter the building and have a little band playing sweet music  so the £5 is to play the entertainment

Cash games say the rake is 5% when you sit down the dealer remembers how much your playing with if you leave up you pay 5% of any winning to simon around the back where nobody can see if you lose you don't pay

 

[kinboshi]

Or make the rake lower, but charge an entrance fee, more for drinks, seating charges (so they're not tied to poker), etc.  Not sure on what can or can't be done though.

^^^^^^^
Thats how DTD will get around it £50 + £0 to play and move the rake on to the door so you play to enter the building and have a little band playing sweet music  so the £5 is to play the entertainment

Cash games say the rake is 5% when you sit down the dealer remembers how much your playing with if you leave up you pay 5% of any winning to simon around the back where nobody can see if you lose you don't pay

 

LOL.

Funny thing is that in Japan many forms of gambling are illegal - including playing pachinko for cash.  They get round this by giving the gamblers the chance to exchange the prizes on offer for money.  So in effect, they're playing for cash.  Sometimes this does involve going round the back to to see the manager!

[MLHMLH]

In the meantime after everything we've been through and the hard work that has been put in to make Dusk Till Dawn the success it is, this was one bit of news we could have done without !!!


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing-and-markets/article.html?in_article_id=483149&in_page_id=3&ito=1565


Cheers

ACES

After reading the HMRC page, doesn't it suggests that DTD will probably be better off? If VAT is removed from participation fees (which I assume is reg charge and rake) and tax bands being increased for Gross Gaming Yield, although the tax is higher, this IMO is more aimed at live casinos, as the GGY for DTD surely cannot be that much as the GGY is calculated as so http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/Client/faq_detail.asp?id=90 or maybe i have just lost the plot

OMG, not at all complex then!

[RichEO]

According to a manager I spoke to briefly about this the other day. The grosvenors casinos are classed independantly of each other. He thinks the poker in the G Manchester will hardly be affected by the changes. But the Vic will be severely affected due to the large turnover they have and them being in the 50% tax bracket.

As DTD has no house games pushing them up the tax brackets I don't see it affecting them that much.

[#1Instigator]

As DTD has no house games pushing them up the tax brackets I don't see it affecting them that much.

thats great news

[dik9]

Apparently it will effect them, more than i thought

[robyong]

We have been working with our tax advisors and this is going to have a huge effect on DTD, effectively all our Juice and Rake will be taxed at somehwere between 15% to 20%. The worst thing about this is that it is on REVENUE - NOT PROFIT (if it was on profit DTD would pay £0!).

This is what the Government have done to DTD so far.

1. They made us get a full Casino Licence and delayed our opening at considerable cost but have left all the so called "illegal poker clubs" alone.

2. They told us we were "VAT except" after we opened so we could not claim VAT back on the £3.8m refit/start up costs (and running costs thereafter)

3. They changed our Business Rates to £200k from £50K to make us in line with the other CASINOS in Nottingham

4. And now they want us to pay 15%-20% of ALL of our poker revenue to them in "Gaming Duty"

DTD (including  online) has never made 1p profit and I am down £5m on DTD and now they do this.

This is very bad for live poker in the UK. We are currently speaking to our advisors and the HRM Customs and Excise, it looks like bad news and even worse, they are going to backdate it to April 29th 2009!!!!!

I have also spoke to Rank, some of their venues will hit the full 50% which is so bad for UK poker - this is money GOING OUT OF THE GAME.

Sadly, I believe this is the Government's  first step towards taxing Poker generally - ie winnings and Prize Pools.

All that will happen is poker will be played live in illegal clubs and of course, on the online sites in non-taxable countries.

It's a nightmare, we are reviewing the situation but I am not prepared to do anything illegal to try and dodge the new Gaming Tax (thanks for the ideas though!). We have to look at our options.....

Rob

[GreekStein]

We have been working with our tax advisors and this is going to have a huge effect on DTD, effectively all our Juice and Rake will be taxed at somehwere between 15% to 20%. The worst thing about this is that it is on REVENUE - NOT PROFIT (if it was profit we would pay £0!).

This is what the Government have done to us so far.

1. They made us get a Casino Licence but have left all the so called "illegal poker clubs" alone.

2. They told us we were "VAT except" after we opened so we could not claim any VAT on the £3.8m refit project

3. They changed our Business Rates to £200k from £50K making us in line with the other CASINOS in Nottingham

4. And now they want us to pay 15%-20% of ALL of our poker revenue to them.

DTD (including  online) has never made 1p profit and I am down £4m on DTD and now they do this.

This is very bad for live poker in the UK. We are currently speaking to our advisors and the HRM Customs and Excise, it looks like bad news and even worse, they are going to backdate it to April 29th 2009!!!!!

I have also spoke to Rank, some of their venues will hit the full 50% which is so bad for UK poker - this is money GOING OUT OF THE GAME.

Sadly, I believe this is the Government's  first step towards taxing Poker winning and Prize Pools. All that will happen is poker will be played live in illegal clubs and of course, on the online sites in non-taxable countries.

Rob

Nice to see you posting again Rob - just a shame it had to be on such a dire note.

Hopefully things show signs of turning around.

[AndrewT]

Does anyone know what the Conservative's position is on gaming and that, seeing as Labour's position will cease to be a factor within a year.

[phatomch]

i have spoke to a few Cardroom managers on this for a well known group that I may or may not have had a history with, they are looking at putting a rental fee on the staff and equipment which they seem to think will bypass the poker income. As for rake in cash I think that it will have to end due to the amount they will have to take to break even on running them.

I think for places like DTD the best way to go is to run a membership fee on a daily basis therefore if you are going in it will cost you £10 per night with no entrance fee to comps this should be able to evade the tax law as it will be a membership fee on a private members club.

[duncthehat]

Unbelievable. totally missed all this in the budget.  These idiots in power have got to go

[The Camel]

On a related subject, I have never seen why poker winnings are not taxed.

[I KNOW IT]

On a related subject, I have never seen why poker winnings are not taxed.

Its nice to enjoy something in life without it having it taxed, thank you very much

[pokerfan]

On a related subject, I have never seen why poker winnings are not taxed.

cos its a luck game innit.

[relaedgc]

Sigh. I lose my job because Grosvenor will find it cheaper to not run poker most likely.