Removing my flop-tinted spectacles

[Pyso]

It’s my play on the river that I would like some opinions on please folks.

Live £20 freeze out at Circus Casino Stoke - it’s called a 'deepstack' but really it’s a mid-stack, with 6000 chips and 20 minute levels with a couple of levels removed.

Anyway this is at the 50-100 level and we are nine handed. I haven’t been involved much yet but neither have the two villains in this piece.

I am in the small blind with       
I have 5700 chips. I don’t have much of an image yet. I am not a regular at Stoke by any means.

There are five limpers and the BB hasn’t woken up yet so it seems ok to call from the SB.

Flop is         

Happy days, I’ve flopped the nuts. I check.

Player A bets 300 and is called by player B in mid position. Folded to me and I flat call. I know player A to be decent, I have played with him before at DTD. I know nothing about player B.

Turn is     

Bugger, now the nuts isn’t looking likely to get paid as much, and actually it isn’t the nuts any more. The low straight flush is impossible as I have the 4 of clubs but 7,8 of clubs has just got there.

I check, player A bets 700

Called by player B and I flat once more intending to lead on the river if the board doesn‘t pair. I did think about raising here but felt the nut flush was just too obvious and that I was only getting called by the real nuts. I want my opponents to think maybe their King or Queen high flush is good and if one of them is trying to boat up (player B perhaps) I’ve decided for better or worse that I’ll give them a chance to get there.

Yes, maybe I should have raised here but I didn’t. The river is  

Now I lead out for 1200. Player A re-raises to 2500 and amazingly player B calls.

What now please?

I will let you know later what I did and why and the critique of my decision.

[EvilPie]

I think this is the clearest flat call I've ever seen.

No point raising now that the house has made it because they're not passing.

Fold is possible but it's too cheap for too big a pot.

You're probably behind 60% of the time here but you can't pass.

Why do you lead out on the end when the card that has come along is a scare card?

I prefer the c/c here which would possibly give you a way out if A bets and B raises. At this stage you've only got 1k of your initial stack in the middle so a pass would be possible if A bets 1200 and B raises to 2.5k.

As played there is just too much in the middle to pass even though you are probably behind.

[Pyso]

Buggeration. I just put  in as a blank without really paying attention. That 2 actually pairs the board. I can't remember the exact river card but I do remember thinking at the time that it didn't pair the board...sorry!!!

Anyway, assume the river was    and I think your answer is still correct...

[Pyso]

I have modified it now so don't give EvilPie any grief - the original post from my muppet-self did say the river card was  . Which it wasn't.

[StuartHopkin]

Think it depends if you think either of them having the will pay you off, if they appear half decent then its probably a flat call.

I think your ahead here but neither player should be paying you off on this board.

I dont think I would ever put either player directly on  enough to fold

If they have it GG NH WP

We also have to give evilpie grief, he thinks were behind on 60% of the time with the ace flush on a unpaired board. What a nit. 

[outragous76]

I have modified it now so don't give EvilPie any grief - the original post from my muppet-self did say the river card was  . Which it wasn't.

If the river card doesnt pair the board this is an all in!

If you are loosing to a perfect hand it is just a cooler - I am never folding to a 2 card perfect holding when i have 2nd nuts - EVER! Just not profitable in the long run

You could easily get a lose call from   with the value in the pot.

I guess you are going to tell us that the min raise is the uber nuts so you flat call and lose?

[david3103]

Think it depends if you think either of them having the will pay you off, if they appear half decent then its probably a flat call.

I think your ahead here but neither player should be paying you off on this board.

I dont think I would ever put either player directly on  enough to fold

If they have it GG NH WP

We also have to give evilpie grief, he thinks were behind on 60% of the time with the ace flush on a unpaired board. What a nit. 

raise 2,000

if they fold just show the  and smile enigmatically?

if they jam, fold showing the  ?

Unlucky if you had run into the  , but what can you do...

[Claw75]

 

[George2Loose]

Is this a level?

fold

[Pyso]

Ok, what I did was thus:

My thinking was quite clear on the river. I knew I had the second nuts. But I also knew that with a four flush on board and two opponents in the hand, that the re-raiser must know for almost certain that I am holding the  , or if not me then the other guy. He also knows that a full house is not possible and so his min re-raise suggests the nuts or maybe an unlikely probe bet to see if I really did have the Ace.

I know he doesn't have the lower straight flush - so his range is either  for the nuts, a random flush that he knows can't be the nuts, maybe a set or straight but extremely unlikely (like 0.01%) and he is never, ever bluffing. He is known to be decent so I can't see him holding anything other than  here.

Yet despite this thinking, I also thought something else. I have been running horrifically bad, I mean getting coolered left right and centre. I am a winning player whose results recently have been so poor that I have lost confidence. I said to myself, "..yes he probably has the exact hand I fear he has but if I always fold in this spot I'll never get my game back. I'll just always be afraid to sleep in the dark otherwise. Bollox to it, it's only a £20 donkfest anyway. If I've been coolered yet again I'm going down in flames. I'm all-in"

Player A took a while and called with a sigh in his voice. I knew then that he had  . Player B passed and I got to see the bad news. To be fair to player A, he said to me straight away, "..sorry mate, I wasn't slow rolling, I needed to try and get a call from the other guy."

No, this post isn't a level. I think it illustrates well how it is possible to ignore everything that is telling you that you are probably beat and then defiantly shoving anyway. I was never ever passing. I should have flat called. At least I would have had a few chips left and still been able to make a comeback. I'm a cash game player really and in a cash game this is an almost certain instant shove obviously, but tourneys are different. You don't have a re-load option.

Jut thought it was an interesting spot. And I would love to know the odds of two players flopping a flush and then one of them turning a straight flush.

[outragous76]

"..sorry mate, I wasn't slow rolling, I needed to try and get a call from the other guy."

slowrolling w@~:er IMO!  - would have told him so too!

What on earth does he think the other guy is going to call with  - with all the preceeding action!

As for the remainder - never folding to 2 perfect cards - your play was fine - you could have flatted if you like

[Royal Flush]

lead the flop

[George2Loose]

Come on- this is ridic. You can't fold here.

Sometimes in poker you get what's called a cold deck. Shit happens!!!

[Pelham Boy]

lol @ 'deepstack'

Lead the flop,get it in on the turn. Just unlucky.

[scotty2hatty]

too much thought, get the chips in