Hand from Vegas tourney

[Chompy]

6,000 chips apiece.
15 mins in, not a lot happened, hour clock, every level.
You have AJ off utg and make it 150. It's called by utg+2 and utg+3, and both blinds make up.
Flop comes 
Blinds both check. You bet 450.
utg+2 calls
utg+3 makes it 1200.
Blinds both fold.
What next iyo?

[boldie]

is that 1200 more? or 1200 total?

Either way I doubt that I'll fold here..if he has a set () GL to him..if he has a massive draw..910c GL to him...(Though I obv don't mean that)

I can't find a fold....the chips go in...3400 to play. (or you could try the over bet shove of course)

[GreekStein]

1) pass pre

2) Can't get funky and flat etc oop and we are now going broke if he has 88 and losing value if we consider flatting when he has draws and misses on the turn and doesn't put more chips in the pot. I shove.here

[Blatch]

re raise or shove, pretty standard unless u have some sort of read on him

[EvilPie]

Pass pre 100% of the time at this level.

Prefer to raise with 45 suited than AJ off. Your far less likely to get stuck in this awful situation.

As played you just have to decide if you're prepared to go bust this early. If you are then you need to commit to the hand and cross your fingers.

If not you have to pass and make a mental note not to raise AJo utg.

Personally I don't know what I'd do as I would never get in to this situation 120bbs deep.

I guess if something happened that put me in this situation I'd raise to about 3k and then snap a shove.

I don't like the overbet shove now as that gives oppo less chance to make a mistake. Draws other than   and anything that we're beating probably pass to the shove. At least if we raise they might just shove a flush draw hoping that they have some FE as back up.

[AlexMartin]

wp now jam.

[EvilPie]

wp now jam.

Is the opinion of a guy prepared to go bust early.

No problem with this at all btw.

I personally wouldn't have played the hand pre but now that it's hit 2 pair I want all the chips in if at all poss.

Alex. Do you not think the raise is better to induce a jam from worse hands?

With 96 bbs back the raiser is likely to pass a lot of draws. What would you expect to call a jam that we'd be happy to see?

[Longy]

Shove, i am fine with opening this or folding pre. Personally i would probably open but i don't think it is a mistake either way.

Evilpie-

I really don't see how this can be seen as an overbet shove if you are only 5xing the 3bet and any raise pot commits you.

As for the whole being prepared going to broke early stuff, that really sounds like live player talk to excuse missing a +ev spot. If the play has a positive expectation regarding how much you make long term, do that. Of course we could get into the "Tikay-esque" arguements about being happy to be there etc, but that isn't really what PHA is about, it is about playing a hand as theoretically well as we can.

[boldie]

Pass pre 100% of the time at this level.

why? Surely if you know how to play flops there's nothing wrong with opening here. Limping is a nono but I don't see why opening is a bad thing here.

[doubleup]

Your far less likely to get stuck in this awful situation.

If OP had AK and the flop was AK8, he is just about in the same situation (ignoring some slight subtilties about villains possible holdings).

[Nico29]

Hate aj, but never rsng with oop is just too nitty. Flop get it in already.

[AlexMartin]

wp now jam.

Is the opinion of a guy prepared to go bust early.

No problem with this at all btw.

I personally wouldn't have played the hand pre but now that it's hit 2 pair I want all the chips in if at all poss.

Alex. Do you not think the raise is better to induce a jam from worse hands?

With 96 bbs back the raiser is likely to pass a lot of draws. What would you expect to call a jam that we'd be happy to see?

yeah i do think raise would be better if we were deeper. given how shallow we are though we need to just get it in. Problem with making a small raise is our hand looks enormous given pre action and players to flop. We want our jam to look like as wide a range as possible (KXcc/8Xcc/910/AK/AQ etcetc).

I think raising small in order to induce a light jam is a significantly less important factor than above.

[Royal Flush]

Same as said fold pre as played i guess shoving is best.

[EvilPie]

Shove, i am fine with opening this or folding pre. Personally i would probably open but i don't think it is a mistake either way.

Evilpie-

I really don't see how this can be seen as an overbet shove if you are only 5xing the 3bet and any raise pot commits you.

As for the whole being prepared going to broke early stuff, that really sounds like live player talk to excuse missing a +ev spot. If the play has a positive expectation regarding how much you make long term, do that. Of course we could get into the "Tikay-esque" arguements about being happy to be there etc, but that isn't really what PHA is about, it is about playing a hand as theoretically well as we can.

Yeah I get where you're coming from regarding the overbet. Bit of an awkward stack I suppose but having reassessed I agree the shove is better.

As for the going broke I was just aiming that at Chompy. If he's prepared to go broke then it's a shove if not then it's a pass.

Personally in this situation I want all the chips in the middle asap and just want to find the best way of doing it.

Not that I'd be in the situation because I would've passed pre and now be secretly kicking myself at missing out on this great spot. 

[EvilPie]

Pass pre 100% of the time at this level.

why? Surely if you know how to play flops there's nothing wrong with opening here. Limping is a nono but I don't see why opening is a bad thing here.

Knowing how to play flops isn't the issue really. The point is that you're usually going to be playing a flop oop and if your oppo is half decent your hand is very vulnerable unless it hits big like this one has.

Surely it proves how difficult the hand is to play when we've hit top 2 and still we're having to discuss it on PHA?