Pass River FH?

[Jamier-Host]

Right.  I found this hand threw me somewhat in what was a pretty straight forward game.


£1/£1 live cash game.  Villain is a bit drunk but hasn't done anything silly.  He keeps a big pile of red chips (about £150) separate to his "working stack" which looks like the amount he wants to make sure he takes home with him!

Button (Villain): £250
SB (Hero): £300
BB: £100
UTG: £50
UTG+1: £50


Hero has   

UTG Calls £1
UTG+1 Folds
Villain Calls £1
Hero Checks
BB Checks

FLOP      

Hero Bets £3
BB Folds
UTG Folds
Villain Raises to £15
Hero Calls £12

(I'm sure he has a big hand here.  99 is a possibility but a decent ten seems much more likely.  I can't pass though as he is pretty pissed and might be messing about with a flush draw or something - plus if i spike a 5 i could felt him - ever the optimist  )

TURN       

Hero Checks (dark)
Villain Bets £15
Hero Calls £15

(I was expecting a bigger bet on the turn here (and may well have passed), but think i may have confused him by checking dark.  As you can tell i've gone into check/call mode)

RIVER         

Hero Checks
Villain Bets £219


(Erm, WTF?!  There is no way in the world he can do this without a ten.  I read the little rule once where they say a bluff is always like 5-10% of their range but not here.  This guy aint doing his case money without a monster.  By the way i was kinda expecting a bet of like £30 on the end which i was gonna pump up a little bit just in case he had brainfarted with JJ or something odd.)


Can you pass?

[boldie]

Oh my.

check dark? Why?...why oh why oh why? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

That's as far as I got at first as I was disgusted by then. (no offense)

Rereading your river post;

Erm, WTF?!  There is no way in the world he can do this without a ten.

yes there is, it's a massive over bet and you "checked dark" on the turn (indicating a flush draw?)he can do this with LOADS of hands.

 I read the little rule once where they say a bluff is always like 5-10% of their range but not here. This guy aint doing his case money without a monster.  

well that makes it a pretty easy fold then, no? But this guy is drunk and an idiot for betting this much into the pot to begin with..so don't automatically assume he always has a monster. He can have A10 here or even be an idiot with a 4.

By the way i was kinda expecting a bet of like £30 on the end which i was gonna pump up a little bit just in case he had brainfarted with JJ or something odd

Do you think JJ calls you when you "pump it up a little bit"? Do you think a 4 calls you? Do you not think this guy just reshoves any monster back in your face when you pump it up a little bit and you have the same decision to make? (Although by then you are committed so have to call anyways)

you didn't really have much of a plan going through this hand, you checked dark on the turn without knowing what to do when he bets out (unless you make a habit of check calling blind and thinking you don't have your ten face up?)

I can find a very easy fold here if your read of "he must have a monster" here is correct...I just don't know if your read is correct..I don't like the way you played it at all though.

Checking blind just ticks me off.

[outragous76]

i just dont think you can put him on 44 here  -worlds sickest cooler if he has that

as for the 10 9? - does he really raise the flop with the stone cold nuts? really?

i think people tend to build the pot on the turn when they flop the nuts

I think this is an insta call - if he has it - he has it.

UL

[BulldozerD]

i'm totally confused - are you saying you put him on T9 or pocket .

either that or i am missing the joke obv

[Jamier-Host]

Well i've stirred someone up already then!  I just checked with my mate who i was with who actually reckons i didn't check dark but whatever - pretty sure i did.

It is worth noting that this is a true monkey game where earlier i had got a 4 bet shove called by 33 on a K 6 4 4 turn.  The key being that people were much more likely to call bets with a very slim chance of winning, rather than actually bet them.

In answer to your question, yes i do think he'd have called a small raise in the fictional check/raise v JJ scenario!

[Jamier-Host]

i'm totally confused - are you saying you put him on T9 or pocket .

either that or i am missing the joke obv

I thought 44 was pretty much impossible.  Had decided he had to have a ten - naturally only one of which beats me.

[Cf]

i'm totally confused - are you saying you put him on T9 or pocket .

either that or i am missing the joke obv

I thought 44 was pretty much impossible.  Had decided he had to have a ten - naturally only one of which beats me.

So call then. And tell him off for increasing the rake you have to pay.

[danski]

I had the fortune of seeing this wasted chappie in action, and after initially thinking he was a massive spew machine, I saw the light. The 'case cash' thing is pretty important IMO, and I can't find any other hand he will have played that way on the end, not 9-9, not J-J, not X4. God knows how he would have played A-A in that spot, but a rush of blood still woudn't have extended to a massive river overbet tho.

That said, him and his more wasted mate were happy to get fast and loose with people they thought might be weak, so there was always the slim chance (maybe 1-5%) that he had zilch, misread his hand or just fancied doing something silly. I still woulda called, while ensuring they didnt accidentally rake it for like £50

Altho, fwiw, the villain re-appeared a few hours later and happily dusted off 3 or 4 buyins with air, so who knows.

[outragous76]

I had the fortune of seeing this wasted chappie in action, and after initially thinking he was a massive spew machine, I saw the light. The 'case cash' thing is pretty important IMO, and I can't find any other hand he will have played that way on the end, not 9-9, not J-J, not X4. God knows how he would have played A-A in that spot, but a rush of blood still woudn't have extended to a massive river overbet tho.

That said, him and his more wasted mate were happy to get fast and loose with people they thought might be weak, so there was always the slim chance (maybe 1-5%) that he had zilch, misread his hand or just fancied doing something silly. I still woulda called, while ensuring they didnt accidentally rake it for like £50

Altho, fwiw, the villain re-appeared a few hours later and happily dusted off 3 or 4 buyins with air, so who knows.

zomg - i reading into this that you folded?

please dont tell me you did it face up

[boldie]

i'm totally confused - are you saying you put him on T9 or pocket .

either that or i am missing the joke obv

I thought 44 was pretty much impossible.  Had decided he had to have a ten - naturally only one of which beats me.

So call then. And tell him off for increasing the rake you have to pay.

This. I am a bit lost now. First you say he can only do this with a monster and then you discard the monster saying the guy is a complete tool.

surely it's a call now?

[EvilPie]

Other than all the silly things that happened previously in the hand I can't see what needs analysis?

Just call.

If you lose it's a cooler. Passing here is just plain silly. Even thinking about it is a slowroll.

[EvilPie]

One more thing.

If he's got you beat or has 99 it should all go in on the flop.

[TheChipPrince]

Is this 1 of those 'i'm the villain and I got the guy to pass 10 5 face up with J high' brag posts?

[Royal Flush]

I had the fortune of seeing this wasted chappie in action, and after initially thinking he was a massive spew machine, I saw the light. The 'case cash' thing is pretty important IMO, and I can't find any other hand he will have played that way on the end, not 9-9, not J-J, not X4. God knows how he would have played A-A in that spot, but a rush of blood still woudn't have extended to a massive river overbet tho.

That said, him and his more wasted mate were happy to get fast and loose with people they thought might be weak, so there was always the slim chance (maybe 1-5%) that he had zilch, misread his hand or just fancied doing something silly. I still woulda called, while ensuring they didnt accidentally rake it for like £50

Altho, fwiw, the villain re-appeared a few hours later and happily dusted off 3 or 4 buyins with air, so who knows.

I hope that was all written in an American accent.

[Jamier-Host]

Other than all the silly things that happened previously in the hand I can't see what needs analysis?

Just call.

If you lose it's a cooler. Passing here is just plain silly. Even thinking about it is a slowroll.

I had a feeling i was gonna get some abuse here.    I passed and he showed T7.

I was 100% sure a call was for a split pot, which wouldn't have been the end of the world as the rake had a low cap.  However I decided I would be a bit sick if he flipped T9 considering he was a bit of a chump.  I had position and another hour or two before the game was due to break to chip away at him.

A £500 pot in that game would have effectively broken it as i'm not sure he would have stayed, and so I figured it wasn't such a bad play all things considered.  I didn't regret it either but was interested to hear some other opinions.