Should I Call For An Almost Certain Flip For My Tournament Life?...

[RPhan88]

Here's to set the scene... It's a £25 freezeout with 5k starting stack and 26 runners... I'm sitting at a 8 handed table with the biggest stack of 12k and the next biggest stack is about 8k... I've been playing pretty tight and aggressive... Haven't had any real hands... Just stealing here and there... Playing with position etc... Had once but that's about it... Nothing to get excited about really... Haven't needed to show down much either...

The hand in question goes like this... I have 12k on the button... Hijack has 3.5k... CO has 6k... Blinds 150/300... Hijack raises to slightly more than his raise in previous hand to 950... CO flats and I look at CO's stack and decide to call with on the button... I feel that I could take their whole stack with the right flop... I've been playing with these players for about 90mins and I'm pretty comfortable with their tendencies and playing flops with them... Calling stations really... Not very aggressive after the flop... Gives free cards away pretty easily...

Flop comes ... Hijack shoves for 2.5k... CO flats and I shove and CO calls...

Hijack has ... CO has ...

Turn was an irrelevant and River was ... CO takes the whole pot down with the gutshot hitting...

Thinking back I was questioning my flop push...

Maybe I should've flat and then shove the turn?...

Maybe I shouldn't have been in the pot in the first place?...

So that's the first hand...

Now the next case...

I then moved table and was sitting to the left of the chip leader... I worked my way up to about 8-9k and picked up   UTG... I raised to 1200 with blinds at 200/400... and the chip leader shoves in the BB... I was pretty sure he had a pair but wasn't sure on which one... Medium to higher was most likely... 8's or higher... I saw him shoved with earlier and busted so I did think it was a similar hand... Especially hearing him say how much he hates playing flops with those kind of pairs... One of the reasons I don't like using my ipod... I declined the race as I don't like to race for my tournament life... The BB had about 25-27k so I didn't feel as if it was some kind of move... He did show me but that's irrelevant really... I later go out with a race anyways with my into ...

In the last few tournaments I have declined races and then end up running dry of hands and/or situations to gain chips to bust out... Should I take a few more races?... Is that bad poker to call to race?... Well, I'm pretty sure it's bad... I don't mind shoving to race but calling doesn't seem right... Shoving 8-9k into a 600 pot is slightly unneccessary really... but some guy did shove into my BB the hand after for about 5k which made me fold ...

Any advice is appreciated... I want to learn more and I want to improve at this game... Thank you, Rubin...

[ZZZZZZZROPE]

1. extremely bad m8, effective stacks are so short its never anything but a fold pre

2. ak get it allin obv

3. if the blinds were 200/400 dont fold aj soooted to a 5k shove plz

[gatso]

hand 1 fold pre, stacks are nowhere near deep enough to be peeling

hand 2 call and call quickly. if you don't want to get your chips in here then give up tournament poker

[MANTIS01]

Hand 1 - "I feel I could take their whole stack with the right flop". You can play atc and take somebody's stack if the flop is right. That isn't outplaying people or using position, it's just hoping for the right flop. With 3-5 this shallow you will never find the right flop....oh wait you did....and you still lost. Don't play this hand. You're overall thought process in this hand is plain bad.

Hand 2 - "I declined the race because I don't like to race for my tournament life". There's 2.5k of dead money in that pot and you have about 7.5k left in your stack. Whether you particularly like racing for your tournament life or not is besides the point....let alone the fact that you actually don't know he has a pair at all. Play this hand. You're overall thought process in this hand is plain bad.

[RPhan88]

Wow okay... I did think it was bad but didn't think it was that bad... I will rethink these kind of situations in the future... Thank you for your thoughts...

[GreekStein]

The first one you played like it's a cash game and you are 200bbs deep. With stacks as they are long term your play can only be a losing one.

[MANTIS01]

When you play tournaments the relative stack sizes should always guide your decisions. Stack sizes of your opponents, your stack in relation to the blinds and to the average stack will play an important role in your decision making process. Like Greekstein said if you were deep your thoughts would be workable. But how can they be this shallow? In hand 1 you go to the flop with the orignal raiser having less in his stack than what's in the middle. He will push many flops because of that and your optimism about outplaying villains with the 3-5 will instantly go up in smoke. Not anticipating that is a plain bad thought process. You are playing a part in manufacturing a situation for yourself where you can't win. Hand 2 is the same, you are making a decision that's completely inappropriate for your situation. You don't have enough chips in the grand scheme of things to be thinking like you are.

[EvilPie]

Same as everyone else really.

Hand 1 fold pre.

I don't mind raising an unopened pot with this hand but never ever flat with it. You may be able to outplay someone if you are deeper but chances of getting everyone to pass at this stage is pretty slim.

Hand 2 is a very quick call. Even quicker than Gatso suggests.

You say you don't like racing for your tournament life. Well try to think of it more positive. You're racing for a double up and a chance to win.

If you don't take a few races you will never win a tournament unless you get ridiculously lucky and get AA or KK a lot.

[MC]

1. extremely bad m8, effective stacks are so short its never anything but a fold pre

2. ak get it allin obv

3. if the blinds were 200/400 dont fold aj soooted to a 5k shove plz

Points 1 & 2 are obviously 100% correct

But AJs isn't an auto call. It depends on who has shoved what stack from what position. Obviously to a button/sb shove it's a snapper, but there are times when this can be a pass.

[pleno1]

1. fold obv, wtf is the guy not shving for instead of calling for 20% of his stack.

2. obv get it in too many hands your crushing and your flipping at worst imo, too much equity get it in.

[ZZZZZZZROPE]

1. extremely bad m8, effective stacks are so short its never anything but a fold pre

2. ak get it allin obv

3. if the blinds were 200/400 dont fold aj soooted to a 5k shove plz

Points 1 & 2 are obviously 100% correct

But AJs isn't an auto call. It depends on who has shoved what stack from what position. Obviously to a button/sb shove it's a snapper, but there are times when this can be a pass.

yeah ure right was tired when i wrote that, im still usually snapping off espec at 200/400 if theres antes

[dino1980]

With most probable coin flip situations at the point you’re considering folding knowing you’re likely in a coin flip, there’s already probably way too much money in the pot to ever fold.There’s nothing wrong with getting it in on a flip as long as it’s a +EV one, which most are, especially once antes kick in.

[salfi]

1st hand spew and what ide call fancy play syndrome.  second hand races are part of the game sadly  and the more u avoid em the more u wil be bullied time and time again. accept u have to race in short stack tourneys and thats more so with anything less then 40 blinds as there is always overlay of blinds and antes so its a race yes but u always gettin better odds then 1 to 1 so its not 50/50 of odds u receive on a flip proposition