Nut flush draw decisions

[TightEnd]

£100 Live MTT

8,000 Starting stack, average under 9,000. 45 remain

blinds 50-100


I am in the cut off with 11,600 and 

A weak limp-calling station opens for 100 in early position from a stack of 2,400. He has limp-called,folding any flop he misses, and lost 75% of his stack in under two levels

I fancy the rest of his chips, and raise to 400, knowing he'll call and I'll hopefully be HU versus the short-stack in position and limited downside, and most likely the best hand pre.

Experienced player in the big blind, playing 13,000, flat calls the raise. Decent enough player, a few moves. Not going to be ATC here in the big blind but wide range for sure.

Calling station calls as expected

flop 

Big blind bets 600

Calling station puts his last 2,000 in immediately

1. Given the range of options what do you do here?

I'm putting the short-stack on a King, possibly a pair and a reasonable diamond. Something like that. The big blind leading into a raiser? Not sure..A very good king maybe? two pair?

Call? Raise (to isolate)? Fold?

I really wasn't sure about this decision, and would welcome advice

I called, hoping the bb doesn't shove

BB calls saying "well I have to call"

Turn 

BB check, I check

River 

BB check....I have back-doored a Broadway straight

2. Are you betting here? If so, why? If not, why not?

[paulhouk03]

i would iso here if u get flat and bb shoves what r u gonna do?
and i would value bet on the river 100% doubt he would flop a flush and check it down

[titaniumbean]

I would definitely raise the flop and try to isolate. I think that on the river you must bet, he looks like he has a showdownable hand not a get it in hand, he can't really expect you to be betting this river that much considering you didn't bet the turn. I doubt he'd check a flush here on the river so I think we are good to bet.

[AlexMartin]

so you guys think BB is gonna shove a hand hes not gonna call with........

Take your time, then call, then check back the turn. On the river this is clearly a 1000% value bet to extract from KQ/KJ/sets etc.

[maldini32]

so you guys think BB is gonna shove a hand hes not gonna call with........

Take your time, then call, then check back the turn. On the river this is clearly a 1000% value bet to extract from KQ/KJ/sets etc.

[EvilPie]

i would iso here if u get flat and bb shoves what r u gonna do?
and i would value bet on the river 100% doubt he would flop a flush and check it down

Erm......

Snap.

If we flat here it's to induce a shove. Raise is ok though.

[MANTIS01]

If you put the ss on a king and you put the sb on at least a king what will you gain by iso shoving the flop? You can't win the pot without hitting whether you push the sb out or not. And if you can only win the pot by hitting why wouldn't you want the sb and his extra money in the pot when this happens? I also don't think you should see calling as putting yourself in an exceptionally vulnerable situation....sb leads, ss shoves, you smooth. You look pretty strong imo and sb doesn't shove often here, especially with the all-in dynamic. That said, now you've manufactured a situation where the sb is involved and you've hit not betting would be madness.

[Cf]

This seems like an awkward spot on the flop.

Presumably the BB has a good hand, and he'd rather just take the pot down with his bet. With 1200 in there though, betting 600 into 2 players doesn't seem the best way of doing that.

Obviously, we're not interested in what the short stack has.

So, 1).

I call here. We can raise here as the BB needs a strong hand to continue. If he does have a strong hand though then we're playing for stacks as an underdog.

Calling also looks strong imo. Presuming you've got your usual table image going then your call could easily be seen to be a big hand. Villian sees the flop action as him betting, a short stack shoving, and you then flatting that shove giving power back to him. Ok, you could do this with a hand such as you have (which even then, villian won't be thrilled to see), but you'd probably do this with a monster too.

If the BB then shoves over your call then it's pretty marginal, but I fold. If I've worked it out right the pot at that point would total 17000, with you needing to put 9200 in to call, giving you about 1.85. Obviously, your flush draw is clean, but the question is whether your ace is or not. I'd be guessing not, as I doubt he's shoving the flop with just a king.

2) Take him to value town. Ignore the fact we have an all in player in the hand. If he's got a flush he bets the turn/river. He hasn't done so, so he hasn't got a flush. Therefore bet. Then cry when he turns over a bizarrely played flush lol.

[salfi]

easy call on flop as u already know u behind to the all in guy. u have to improve to win the pot and so due to this u want the blind in to boost the pot shud u improve. raising flop has no merit and besides u look strong when u flat here as ude often have a flush in this spot to so if the blind flops he prob never has a flush . three way pots with a all in man tend to play more honest but they become fun when u both know the all in man has nothing because u know u bluffing for the whole pot. obvious when u both suspect the all in man is strongish theres no merit in bluffing this pot its more of a value bet type pot and hope the other guy has enough to pay u off.

[Free_Rollin]

so you guys think BB is gonna shove a hand hes not gonna call with........

Take your time, then call, then check back the turn. On the river this is clearly a 1000% value bet to extract from KQ/KJ/sets etc.

This, all day long.

[TightEnd]

So I value bet the end, a nice chunky 2,500 or so. BB can't have checked the flush turn and river.

BB calls and flips 

 

[kukushkin88]

Lots of people won't bet into a dry side pot with a non nut hand if there is a chance to eliminate a player (i know he virtually has the nuts here). There is perceived to be some merit in ensuring the player is eliminated. Andy Ward wrote a decent blog on it, the misconception that the idea of tournament poker is to eliminate other players, when actually the obvious goal is to accumulate all the chips.

 

[MANTIS01]

So I value bet the end, a nice chunky 2,500 or so. BB can't have checked the flush turn and river.

BB calls and flips 

 

I don't believe this to be true. Even if he checked turn & river he can't have smoothed the river bet, he just can't have, can he?

[BulldozerD]

wowzers

[TightEnd]

So I value bet the end, a nice chunky 2,500 or so. BB can't have checked the flush turn and river.

BB calls and flips 

 

I don't believe this to be true. Even if he checked turn & river he can't have smoothed the river bet, he just can't have, can he?

Absolutely.

I fretted, silently, for about 90 minutes about this hand afterwards. Flop decision, river decision, the whole lot lol