The 3bet Mindset

[DungBeetle]

Hypothetical tournament question:

We are in the SB with  in the mid stages of a tournament and it is folded round to the cutoff.  Both ourselves and the cutoff have 40 BBs remaining and the tournament structure is not a crapshoot.  Cutoff makes standard raise to 3x BB.  Button passes.

When it comes to us what is the superior mindset?

1) Assign range to villain and flat call/3bet accordingly.  If cutoff subsequently shoves, re-evaluate before proceeding
2) Assign range to villain and flat call/3bet accordingly.  If cutoff subsequently shoves, we have already pre-determined that we will call given our original range evaluation, and the shove is consequently irrelevant in changing our thinking.

Does the superior option above change depending on effective stacks? 

[Royal Flush]

Option 1 is always going to be tez if we 3bet.

Either flat and see what flop brings or 3bet to fold/3bet to call.

[DungBeetle]

ok - so we are saying that if we 3 bet we should pre-decide their 4betting range before we do it, and then snap fold or snap call the 4bet accordingly? 

[action man]

yes, dwelling after 3betting is bad.

[titaniumbean]

ok - so we are saying that if we 3 bet we should pre-decide their 4betting range before we do it, and then snap fold or snap call the 4bet accordingly?  

IF you think the player is opening with a wide range and not necessarily always folding this wide range to your 3 bet then your 3 bet can be for value. If you are expecting him to 4 bet with better and fold worse then you are turning your hand into a bluff. If so you are completely wasting the value of 99, so you flat this strength of hand and choose to 3bet a hand that has no value because we dont expect to get to showdown with hands that we 3 bet against this specific player.


Also halp, wat does tez mean I keep reading it and I have no clue. Urban dictionary has no definitions that seem to fit the constant usage on here lol.

[AndrewT]

Also halp, wat does tez mean I keep reading it and I have no clue. Urban dictionary has no definitions that seem to fit the constant usage on here lol.

Tez = terrible.

[titaniumbean]

Also halp, wat does tez mean I keep reading it and I have no clue. Urban dictionary has no definitions that seem to fit the constant usage on here lol.

Tez = terrible.

 

[AlexMartin]

just wrote a long reply. then realised its kinda pointless. If you are talking about thinking one step ahead in a hand, yeah thats the best option by far, otherwise, ur gonna get exploited. That said, just because you have a plan, doesnt mean you shouldnt take into account other factors such as timing/chat/etc when making the next decision. Thats just dumb.

also, fwiw 99 is a hand u should deffo 3b to be snapping a jam because it plays well v 4b jamming ranges. Something like AJ could be a 3b fold, IF villain was exploitable enough that you know a 4b means u are DEF crushed for example (live poker 5 years ago for example).

[keilan303]

yes, dwelling after 3betting is bad.

I find myself clicking in space of the fold button (or skimming my cards at the speed of light live) when faced with a 4 bet where my decision was always to fold....do you think its bad to give away the info or is it useful to let them think 3bet folding is something you might be doing a lot of (ie. so you can 3bet snap next time) I'm only (usually) doing this deep so folding > calling any two!

[Cf]

yes, dwelling after 3betting is bad.

I find myself clicking in space of the fold button (or skimming my cards at the speed of light live) when faced with a 4 bet where my decision was always to fold....do you think its bad to give away the info or is it useful to let them think 3bet folding is something you might be doing a lot of (ie. so you can 3bet snap next time) I'm only (usually) doing this deep so folding > calling any two!

if you dwell and then fold then you've still given the info that you can 3bet/fold. The fact that you've dwelled suggests that you either want some tv time or was 3betting without a plan. Most likely the latter.

[maxward]

just wrote a long reply. then realised its kinda pointless. If you are talking about thinking one step ahead in a hand, yeah thats the best option by far, otherwise, ur gonna get exploited. That said, just because you have a plan, doesnt mean you shouldnt take into account other factors such as timing/chat/etc when making the next decision. Thats just dumb.

also, fwiw 99 is a hand u should deffo 3b to be snapping a jam because it plays well v 4b jamming ranges. Something like AJ could be a 3b fold, IF villain was exploitable enough that you know a 4b means u are DEF crushed for example (live poker 5 years ago for example).

def agree on the jamming call. when the villain is in position but chooses to jam it reads more like a range wieghted towards unmade hands or small pairs hoping for fold equity - which we obv kill

[George2Loose]

Can Max get to 300 posts in one night???

[Rupert]

yes, dwelling after 3betting is bad.

couldnt agree more, but can see circumstances live where your decision should change