What do you do here?

[x_posed]

Playing a local live donkament with a crapshooty structure and the following hand arises. It raised a bit of discussion afterwards and I'm still not 100% sure whether I made the right decision.

We have just over 9k in chips, in the big blind, with the blinds at 200/400. It gets folded round to the small blind who limps (he has about 10k or so) and I look down at  and make it 800 more, he calls.

The flop comes  and he checks. I bet 2k and he looks back at his cards and shoves fairly quickly. Can you/ do you call here?

I have played against villain before and have known him to both check call and check raise with flush draws and my image so far has been solidish with a couple of mis timed bluffs being caught, although will often fold to my pre flop raise if he has total rubbish. If I win the hand I would be a big stack and good for final table but if I fold I'm below average and will struggle when the blinds go up (as I said before jut a cheap crapshoot, 20 min levels).

Maybe I should just check pre flop?

I'll give my thoughts and reasoning on the hand after some analysis.

cheers

[marcin123]

check pre... as you played it fold once he shoves...

[CounterfeitKing]

if you're gonna raise pre its not terrible but you gotta make it more, in a live tourney he's calling far too often and obviously it's designed for him to fold. (this doesnt apply online as the raise you put in is about right).

He is likely to be shoving here with any pair or any good club. therefore a call is pretty standard, either your pair is good or your draw is good (and you have the right price), its very unlikely that you're crushed (by like Kc7x or XcXc). I cant run stove atm but im pretty sure its either really close or youre ahead.

[StuartHopkin]

Hate the raise pre, and would hate it more if you made it more. Thats just madness.

He obv has the  x so call and cry when he gets there.

[CounterfeitKing]

Hate the raise pre, and would hate it more if you made it more.

you you are trying to get value from your 86o? what do you think the point of a raise is?

[GreekStein]

I don't mind the raise pre if there's an ante. If there isn't just check and play the flop.

[NoflopsHomer]

Bet less on the flop if you're not going to call.

[StuartHopkin]

Hate the raise pre, and would hate it more if you made it more.

you you are trying to get value from your 86o? what do you think the point of a raise is?

Yeah thats right mate, I want value from 86o. 

[CounterfeitKing]

lol how can you hate a bigger raise when the raise is 100% designed to get V to fold? Im not an advocate of the raise in the first place tbh but if youre going to do it here clearly you have to be getting sb to fold a large % of the time, which you do by making the raise bigger, ducy?

[StuartHopkin]

lol how can you hate a bigger raise when the raise is 100% designed to get V to fold? Im not an advocate of the raise in the first place tbh but if youre going to do it here clearly you have to be getting sb to fold a large % of the time, which you do by making the raise bigger, ducy?

Not really bud.

If you want to 5x people you go for it.
I would be quite excited to be sat on your right though.

[CounterfeitKing]

kk seems pro

[EvilPie]

I don't like getting a third of my stack in then folding hence the reason I would play this hand completely differently.

You've got 20bbs so you need to preserve your re shove stack and use it wisely when the opportunity arises.

Spewing away 3k of it here is madness.

Firstly I check pre. Assuming I've mis clicked raise then I'm not betting the flop. Any 3 suit board this short is praying for a c/r. If you were the SB wouldn't you look to c/r yourself with your hand? I know I would because I know I'm rarely dead and oppo needs something good to call.

As played just call. You've committed too much to pass when you've actually gone and hit this hard. Oppo can do this with so many hands we just can't pass. Only 2 green cards with an over kills us and that doesn't make up a high enough % of his range to pass now.

[x_posed]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Basically, my thought process was as follows:

Pre flop, I feel he would raise me with A9+ and QJ+ and knowing the type of player he is I think he would probably fold most other hands here to a pot size bet, except probably Ax, 10J and possibly 910. I would never bet 5x here but can see why theres an argument for checking.

From my analysis pre, I felt I was able to narro his range to a few hands and his cr on the flop didn't really change my mind on his range. I felt my bet would force him to fold most of his range except  obv or A7 no club. The fact he looked back at his hand confirmed, in my mind, he had the  .

The only hand thats really killing me here is  7 (based on my read obv), and I'm pretty sure it must be below A9. From here, it's obv a straight forward call and a virtual flip (I think I'm like 55% or something).

I know I'm taking a big risk taking this line as he could easily have been slowplaying an overpair but I just didn't feel he'd play it like this.

Anyway, he flipped  - the result of the hand doesn't really matter, was just interested on what lines others would take. Obv this hand is based completely on my reads until the final call which is simple pot odds.  Those of you who check pre, what line do you take on the flop/turn considering he is unlikely to lump it into an unraised pot?

[StuartHopkin]

Hate the raise pre, and would hate it more if you made it more. Thats just madness.

He obv has the  x so call and cry when he gets there.

 

[poonjoe]

I don't like getting a third of my stack in then folding hence the reason I would play this hand completely differently.

You've got 20bbs so you need to preserve your re shove stack and use it wisely when the opportunity arises.

Spewing away 3k of it here is madness.

Firstly I check pre. Assuming I've mis clicked raise then I'm not betting the flop. Any 3 suit board this short is praying for a c/r. If you were the SB wouldn't you look to c/r yourself with your hand? I know I would because I know I'm rarely dead and oppo needs something good to call.

As played just call. You've committed too much to pass when you've actually gone and hit this hard. Oppo can do this with so many hands we just can't pass. Only 2 green cards with an over kills us and that doesn't make up a high enough % of his range to pass now.

This ^.

You definitely have the equity you need against his range as you describe it, so the final call is a no-brainer.

As you have position, and you expect a check-raise, but the check raise doesn't narrow his range much, you might have preferred the more conservative route of checking behind on the flop then using new information on the turn. The way the stacks are, he has been able to put you to a decision with a check/raise. As the chips at the bottom of your stack are worth more than the chips at the top, he has effectively increased the minimum equity YOU need to call. Perhaps shoving the flop might have been better than betting if you were worried about a check/raise.