Hand for Hand play - A novel suggestion

[Nightfly]

this suggestion was one of the more unusual ones to be proposed during the recent 250 freezeout at Notts.

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both options.

just wondered what all you players thought

nightfly

[BlueWolf]

playing 11 players on one table sorta takes away the prestige of making the final table IMO. To some people its a big deal.

Imagine sayin you made the final table but didnt get paid???

[David_Capon]

A table of 5 and 6 is good.  It means that you can abuse the bubble and steal everyones blinds as it is shorthanded and everyone plays scared.  It makes the game more fun, more skillful and you have to have more balls which i think make a better poker game.

David

[RED-DOG]

I think its a great idea, but you will never get it past the die hards

[Nightfly]

playing 11 players on one table sorta takes away the prestige of making the final table IMO. To some people its a big deal.

Imagine sayin you made the final table but didnt get paid???

would this not be the same as the disappointment felt going out on the bubble?

more often than not a proposal is made by one or more players to pay a 'saver' for 11th. Where money is paid for 11th you still sense the disappointment of having missed the final table by one place. it does seem as you say that the 'prestige' is more important than the money.

[Ironside]

its hard enough fitting 10 players round a table espically if 1 of them is in a chair all you need is 1 or 2 overweight players and its gonna be uncomfortable

[Nightfly]

A table of 5 and 6 is good. It means that you can abuse the bubble and steal everyones blinds as it is shorthanded and everyone plays scared. It makes the game more fun, more skillful and you have to have more balls which i think make a better poker game.

David

this may be true if you are chipped up ... but would you feel the same way if you were the shortest stack left on the table with 5.

i believe it is the short stack on this table who is most disadvantaged by hand for hand 6/5 play.

[phil_and]

this may be true if you are chipped up ... but would you feel the same way if you were the shortest stack left on the table with 5.

i believe it is the short stack on this table who is most disadvantaged by hand for hand 6/5 play.

Why give the short stack an unnatural advantage by letting them see more hands?  Play round the bubble is one of the challenges of tournament poker, and helps make it an exciting experience.  We are all aware that it's tough with a short stack at that time but the solution is not to make it easier - it's to get a bigger stack before you get there

[Junior Senior]

playing short handed under pressure as a low stack or applying the pressure as a big stack and negotiating your way to the final is a massive part of the game and a real big part of tournament strategy - leave it as it is. There is nothing like that "oh no, i'm gonna bubble feeling!" (tikay? :-)) - if you start changing this then where do you draw the line when mr 11th and 12th suddenly decide they want 13 round the last table with 3.50 for 12th and free parking (2) for 13th!!

i have placed my vote. - lets not take away this key part of any tournament.

[Yogi-Bear]

Perhaps there should be another option there.That would be playing a 9 handed final.

Then you will have 2 tables of 5 and non of the usual complaints etc. Also these flatter prize structures are so much easier if you are only paying 9 and not 10.

Or pay the 10 and play 9 handed.?

Yogi

[Nightfly]

Perhaps there should be another option there.That would be playing a 9 handed final.

Then you will have 2 tables of 5 and non of the usual complaints etc. Also these flatter prize structures are so much easier if you are only paying 9 and not 10.

Or pay the 10 and play 9 handed.?

Yogi

Only having 9 prizes / players on the final table is a solution but i think this would be an unpopular move where ten prizes have been the norm for so long.
another solution would be to introduce a prize for 11th and therefore have a balanced hand for hand scenario with 6 on each table.

it is the imbalance that is created by having 6 players on one table and only 5 on the other that creates the problem here.
on the table of 5 all players (regardless of stack size) are forced to blind in 40% of the hands whereas
on the table of 6, players blind in only 33.333% of the hands
if hand for hand only lasts for a few hands it is not a real problem, but is it fair for some players to blind more often than others if hand for hand extends over many hands?
 would another solution be to move a player from the table of 6 to the table of five after a certain number of hands?

i totally agree with the comments about the importance of this stage of a tournament and the intricacies and exitement of play around the bubble, and i don't believe that there will be any alteration as a result of this poll (i am expecting a 50/50 split on this anyway) it has certainly provoked some interesting responses so far (keep 'em coming guys!)

If reducing the prizes to 9 is a solution that would imply that for larger attendances there would be 18 prizes with hand for hand @ 19 players... this creates an imbalance in the tables which 20 prizes does not: 9/10 as opposed to 3 x 7

[snoopy1239]

I think you should add the new suggestions made as selectable options. As with the smoking question.

[tikay]

"abuse the bubble"

 Yellow Card for David Capon.

[AdamM]

someone's always going to be on the bubble. Hand for hand play is an unfortunate but inevitable counter for people avoiding being 'close but no cigar' Doesn't matter whether it's 9, 10, or 11 left, two tables or one, you're still going to get play slow down. I probably favour having 1 non paying spot on the final table as it means all the chip leaders get a crack at who ever's battling the bubble.

I was on the final table at Notts once and there were 4 of the 10 very short. the guy in seat 1 literaly had 1 BB so the other 3 of us were waiting for him to go. it passed all the way round to the SB who, although quite short himself, showed some inexperience and passed leaving the guy with 1.5 BB. With action having taken place already the short stack passed his SB leaving him still on 1xBB. second round on his BB he did get a call and won. giving him 2.5xBB but the blinds went up putting him back down It took 3 rounds for him to go, everyone passing evrything until it happened. I went out 7th at 3.30 that night and was the last of the short stacks to go but it killed the game for the big stacks. They'd all been waiting for the short stacks to go before starting their game. Something I'm sure they regretted in hindsight.

[AdamM]

last night at Nottingham a deal was suggested two tables out. 50 for 11th 12th and 13th with 13 players left. suprisingly it went through with only 10 minutes banter between the two tables. there was very little hold up on the bubble at all.
We finalled at 2am which in my experience is very early.
280 for 6th from 20 (no buyins or top ups if anyone's interested)