Short-stack threshold for shoving any two when folded to you on the button?

[kinboshi]

I'm a nit, and I'd be shoving with ATC well before I'm down to 4BBs. I always like to look though first, not because I might change my mind before I shove the chips in, but because if I have two green cards I can be all smug knowing I'm going to win the hand.

[StuartHopkin]

TitBeam on thread.

Please post something worthy of a banana dance.

Kthx

[titaniumbean]

TitBeam on thread.

Please post something worthy of a banana dance.

Kthx

Dont shove and lose in a sat before you've made a seat, that's prob good advice.

[Karabiner]

how can he know you push with a wide range when youve been blinded down to 3bbs?

The fact you have only 3 BB's probably means you have a really tight shoving range up to now or you wouldnt have got that low.

If it folds to me on the button and i have 10 bigs or less im struggling to not shove any two, the lower and dirtier the two the better.

Whilst mentally limbering-up for the post-bink "smell these nuts" celebration no doubt.

[Bandito]

Yep, fair comment, it's a fair rap.  Thanks everyone, you've convinced me that I'm a closet nit  ;o)  I'm gleefully shoving with 6,3 suited by the way.  Even nitty me recognises that for a powerhouse.  I'm talking about trash like 7,2 and 8,3 when there's more of a psychological barrier. 

I am talking about when we are on the final table and in the money, however, and whilst recognising that we should be playing to give ourselves the best chance of winning, I do wonder if the presence of similar sized stacks on the table ought not to make a difference?  Two double ups and we are chip leader.

Am I thinking about this wrongly saying I have no problem shoving with any two as a short stack when far from the money, but am less inclined to do so in the scenario described if folding means moving up a money spot when someone busts out on the next hand?  Twice I've reached the final table as the short stack and finished third and fourth by playing conservatively.  Granted shoving with any two might have yielded wins instead, but just as likely an earlier exit...

Confused.com

[gatso]

Twice I've reached the final table as the short stack and finished third and fourth by playing conservatively

2 is not generally considered as a decent sample size

[StuartHopkin]

Yeah I think you should be shoving 7 2 and 8 3 happily.

Chances are they both fold
If we get looked up by two overs we just need a bink.
If we get looked up by a big pair, then oops.

But its these spots that give you a chance to get back in the game.
Once your down to 3 bigs you need to get 2 or more double ups.

You should always be playing to win as in the long term this should win you more than laddering.

[Bandito]

Yeah I think you should be shoving 7 2 and 8 3 happily.

Chances are they both fold
If we get looked up by two overs we just need a bink.
If we get looked up by a big pair, then oops.

But its these spots that give you a chance to get back in the game.
Once your down to 3 bigs you need to get 2 or more double ups.

You should always be playing to win as in the long term this should win you more than laddering.

Convinced.com!  Amen to this post.  Really appreciate the input and I now feel ready now to break free from my self-imposed shackles; I feel liberated; I'm a new man!  Look out future final tables cos no holds barred!  All future winnings dedicated to posters on this forum  )

[kinboshi]

Yeah I think you should be shoving 7 2 and 8 3 happily.

Chances are they both fold
If we get looked up by two overs we just need a bink.
If we get looked up by a big pair, then oops[

But its these spots that give you a chance to get back in the game.
Once your down to 3 bigs you need to get 2 or more double ups.

You should always be playing to win as in the long term this should win you more than laddering.

Convinced.com!  Amen to this post.  Really appreciate the input and I now feel ready now to break free from my self-imposed shackles; I feel liberated; I'm a new man!  Look out future final tables cos no holds barred!  All future winnings dedicated to posters on this forum  )

QFT

[gatso]

I am talking about when we are on the final table and in the money, however, and whilst recognising that we should be playing to give ourselves the best chance of winning, I do wonder if the presence of similar sized stacks on the table ought not to make a difference?  Two double ups and we are chip leader.

one last point even though you're already convinced. it's much easier to get those 2 double ups if you haven't just passed

[Bandito]

I am talking about when we are on the final table and in the money, however, and whilst recognising that we should be playing to give ourselves the best chance of winning, I do wonder if the presence of similar sized stacks on the table ought not to make a difference?  Two double ups and we are chip leader.

one last point even though you're already convinced. it's much easier to get those 2 double ups if you haven't just passed

Agreed.  It's just so obvious to me now!  And I described 6,3 suited as a powerhouse when compared to 7,2 off, but what difference are we actually talking about?  5-6% improved equity!
OMG, thanks everyone for removing the blindfolds; you've supplied me with the poker equivolent of the red pill in the Matrix!

[MANTIS01]

If a bad beat crippled me at the ft leaving me 3 bb's those chips would be in the middle next hand.

[EvilPie]

If a bad beat crippled me at the ft leaving me 3 bb's those chips would be in the middle next hand.

UTG with 52o? Personally I think there's also a threshold where you get so short that you can fold atc as you know you're being called and behind.

With a little bit of FE I agree it's atc but with none I can fold some hands.

[Longy]

If a bad beat crippled me at the ft leaving me 3 bb's those chips would be in the middle next hand.

UTG with 52o? Personally I think there's also a threshold where you get so short that you can fold atc as you know you're being called and behind.

With a little bit of FE I agree it's atc but with none I can fold some hands.

Agreed I am pretty sure folding the bottom 20-25% of your range is +ev, if not wider.

[MANTIS01]

If a bad beat crippled me to 3 bb's I would shove atc. Perhaps tilt? I would want the poker gods to shoot me like the sick crippled dog I am. It might be mathematically +EV to fold your bottom 25% but then again you've gotta consider the trade off in life minutes you waste nitting around with the other little stump stacks. How horrible. You could be in bed by the time you finally decide to push. After winning the push with 52o UTG I would then push my blind. After winning that one I would feel calmer. Then we can start busting the nits.