GORDON BROWN'S CHINESE TAKEAWAY

[MANTIS01]

What are people's thoughts about the execution of Akmal Shaikh for smuggling 4kg of heroin into China? And the British government's stinging criticism of China's judicial system? Gordon Brown's condemnation of China helps Britain how? I think Brown is a complete mug of a PM and look forward to his demise in 2010. It's funny because he has continually urged us all to embrace and respect other cultures in this country and yet he shows no respect to the Chinese having made no less than 27 representations for clemency along with his vocal disgust of their handling of this case.

Admittedly I don't know much about the case but I do know the man's family are outraged and are citing mental disorder as a mitigating factor, apparently bipolar, the same as Kerry Katona. They described him as "a very vulnerable person and extremely ill". Why did they allow him to go to Poland and then onto China if this was so? The Chinese state that the guy has no medical condition on record so their actions seem fair enough imo. Anybody who commits a very serious crime prob has issues of some sort.

[Colchester Kev]

Kill them all, anyone caught smuggling drugs should be wiped out.

Every country in the world should do the same.

[Claw75]

Stephen Fry was fronting a fairly high profile campaign for Reprieve on this case. Their take here.

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/akmalshaikh

[byronkincaid]

Kill them all, anyone caught smuggling drugs should be wiped out.

Every country in the world should do the same.

people have been banged up in dubai for having a pack of mild (legal in this country) pain killers and also for smoking a spliff before they got on the plane. they have sensors so sensitive they can pick up if you accidentally wiped your arm on a surface where someone snorted coke. think you should define exactly what is an illegal drug and possession of exactly how much of it is smuggling before you start killing everyone off.

[lazaroonie]

Kill them all, anyone caught smuggling drugs should be wiped out.

Every country in the world should do the same.

people have been banged up in dubai for having a pack of mild (legal in this country) pain killers and also for smoking a spliff before they got on the plane. they have sensors so sensitive they can pick up if you accidentally wiped your arm on a surface where someone snorted coke. think you should define exactly what is an illegal drug and possession of exactly how much of it is smuggling before you start killing everyone off.

the guy had 4 keys for fuxsake. he hardly got that by wiping his arm on a table.

[celtic]

Kill them all, anyone caught smuggling drugs should be wiped out.

Every country in the world should do the same.

people have been banged up in dubai for having a pack of mild (legal in this country) pain killers and also for smoking a spliff before they got on the plane. they have sensors so sensitive they can pick up if you accidentally wiped your arm on a surface where someone snorted coke. think you should define exactly what is an illegal drug and possession of exactly how much of it is smuggling before you start killing everyone off.

the guy had 4 keys for fuxsake. he hardly got that by wiping his arm on a table.

 

[Acidmouse]

His defence didn't mention his mental health problems until he was proven guilty and the death sentance layed down.

Poorly handled by the people defending him.

[doubleup]

Admittedly I don't know much about the case

but you'll just spout out any old shite anyway

[patman]

seems to me that the uk government is bi polar.

 issues plea for clemency on the grounds that the guy had a a medical condition and may not have been aware of teh full implications of what he did

at same time refusing plea on medical grounds by mkinnons extradition to a us federal penetentiary based on the fact that he was trying to cause damage and was not aware of the implications of what he did

no wonder the chinese dont get us -we are so inconsistent.

that aside the chinese have laws -he broke em - our opinion is irrelevent.

[MANTIS01]

Admittedly I don't know much about the case

but you'll just spout out any old shite anyway

No sir, I'll start a thread asking people for their opinions on the matter. That way I will broaden my knowledge on the subject and learn more about how people feel. Your contribution taught me you are a grumpy plops and nothing more. But that doesn't help me to become more informed about the issue.....thus compounding the very thing that annoyed you. So gg.

[smileriraq]

whilst I think there are some genuine mitigating factors in this case the chinese have certainly set an effective deterrent to drug smugglers , its just unfortunate that drug smugglers use unwitting and unsuspecting mules to move their stuff

that said if i were travelling in that neck of the words i would be extremely vigilant over my case/bag

[Claw75]

OK, well here's my opinion.

Firstly, saying that his condition was 'the same as Kerry Katona' is pretty unhelpful. Bipolar disorders are not all the same, and even sufferers diagnosed with the same type of bipolar disorder will have different symptoms (eg there will be psychosis present in some, but not others).

"They described him as "a very vulnerable person and extremely ill". Why did they allow him to go to Poland and then onto China if this was so?". That quote also wound me up a bit. By their very nature, bi polar disorders present symptoms cyclically, and most 'sufferers' lead perfectly normal lives, either with or without medication. One presumes the guy was in a stable period when 'they' (whoever 'they' are) 'allowed' him to travel.

The long and short of it, I think, is that it's impossible for any of us to say what we think could or should have happened in this case as we don't have access to the guy's medical records or the evaluations that were made of his condition which were the basis of the appeal. What we can do is express our opinions on whether people committing a crime when not of sound mind should be convicted in the same way as someone fully in charge of their faculties.  I'm a loony lefty who has been a member of Amnesty for the last 15 years, so I don't think I need to spell out what I think to that.

[StuartHopkin]

Dead now by the sound of it they didnt think he was mentally ill so that was that.

Quick turnaround imo!

[MANTIS01]

OK, well here's my opinion.

Firstly, saying that his condition was 'the same as Kerry Katona' is pretty unhelpful. Bipolar disorders are not all the same, and even sufferers diagnosed with the same type of bipolar disorder will have different symptoms (eg there will be psychosis present in some, but not others).

"They described him as "a very vulnerable person and extremely ill". Why did they allow him to go to Poland and then onto China if this was so?". That quote also wound me up a bit. By their very nature, bi polar disorders present symptoms cyclically, and most 'sufferers' lead perfectly normal lives, either with or without medication. One presumes the guy was in a stable period when 'they' (whoever 'they' are) 'allowed' him to travel.

The long and short of it, I think, is that it's impossible for any of us to say what we think could or should have happened in this case as we don't have access to the guy's medical records or the evaluations that were made of his condition which were the basis of the appeal. What we can do is express our opinions on whether people committing a crime when not of sound mind should be convicted in the same way as someone fully in charge of their faculties.  I'm a loony lefty who has been a member of Amnesty for the last 15 years, so I don't think I need to spell out what I think to that.

I didn't intend to cheapen the bipolar condition Claw so apologies if it came across that way. However, that said a disorder that allows the sufferer to lead a perfectly normal life during stable periods can be exploited and cheapened in this very sort of circumstance. I imagine anybody seeking to smuggle heroin into a country with capital punishment would see a bipolar sufferer as the ideal mule. If in the event they are caught they can use the clemency plea to lessen the severity of their sentence. Somebody with bipolar would hardly claim they were in a mentally stable period when they're sitting in a foreign prison awaiting the death sentence. Can an accurate assessment really be made after the fact?

If a Brit took a bad beat in the Bellagio, went out and got a shotgun, came back and started picking off dealers at will is that guy of a stable mentality? Hell no. If the American judiciary sentences that guy to death should our PM tell the world he thinks America is inhumane? and what good would it do if he did? That was more my question. I kinda think the criticism was such because it was China. And the Chinese authorities state this guy has no record of mental illness. So in that respect is bipolar being exploited to achieve clemency? And if it is wouldn't it set a dangerous precedent if China succumbed?

[Claw75]

I didn't think you'd cheapened anything, but I wasn't sure why you'd mentioned Kerry Katona tbh.

I agree to an extent with the other stuff, but these things have to be considered on a case by case basis and the judgements of the professionals taken into consideration. IDK if there is a precedent for someone suffering (or claiming to suffer) with a bipolar disorder being let off a drug smuggling charge or shown clemency. I don't imagine the smugglers are too bothered about the fate of the mule in any case tbh, so not sure why they'd be 'ideal'.

"Wouldn't it be a dangerous precedent if China succumbed?"  In what way do you think such a precedent could be 'dangerous' - anything that leads to less state-sanctioned executions being carried out is ok in my book, or am I missing something obvious?