Do you value bet this river?

[outragous76]

Full Tilt Poker Game #18576309919: Table Adrenaline - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:01:42 ET - 2010/02/18
Seat 1: deboslice11 ($99.15)
Seat 2: outragous76 ($216.20)
Seat 3: tryyy ($157.90)
Seat 4: GlStyle ($103.85)
Seat 5: Poteten ($193.50)
Seat 6: sameshtdiffday ($249.40)
Seat 7: MoonWalker72 ($63.35)
Seat 8: luckylin2017 ($326.70)
Seat 9: C--H--E--1964 ($121.25)
tryyy posts the small blind of $0.50
GlStyle posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to outragous76 [ ]
Poteten folds
sameshtdiffday raises to $3
MoonWalker72 folds
luckylin2017 folds
C--H--E--1964 folds
deboslice11 folds
outragous76 raises to $12
tryyy folds
GlStyle folds
sameshtdiffday calls $9
*** FLOP *** [ ]
sameshtdiffday checks
outragous76 bets $18
sameshtdiffday calls $18
*** TURN *** [ ] []
sameshtdiffday has 15 seconds left to act
sameshtdiffday checks
outragous76 has 15 seconds left to act
outragous76 checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
sameshtdiffday checks
outragous76 has 15 seconds left to act
outragous76 has requested TIME

[EvilPie]

If I think oppo has half a brain yes definitely.

A bet here looks like a bluff from a typical c bet gone wrong and given up on the turn.

Does oppo know you at all? If not then value town him here 100%

I'd be snapping you off with any pair and possibly even AK.

You'll definitely get called by worse.

[MC]

How can you not value bet this river? What hand checks to you 3 times, with you having checked the turn, that has you beat?...

[pleno1]

yep, bet fold river.

[Cottonbud]

Defo value bet river. He might call pocket 4's a small/med over pair to the flop like 6's/8's/9's or even ace high or a hand like A5. Easy bet . BTW If he calls and has AQ or JJ and you think you value-towned yourself don't worry about it, bcos its results orientated.

[outragous76]

Thanks. As you can see i hit time. I did v bet (22 bucks) and he snap called with 44. This is a spot i have been missing for years. Just wanted to make sure it was standard. I was convinced he had 77 thru to jj. I Couldnt decide if i should be showing down or betting, given that i have to fold if he raises. Ty  

[Dubai]

Misclick the turn?

[NigDawG]

Misclick the turn?

yh i'd be betting the turn here for value. majority of players will give you at least 2 streets of value here, while you can also get calls from Ax or diamonds on the turn (which wouldn't call river)

[outragous76]

Didnt see the point of betting like 40 on the turn when a million scare cards can come on the river that he can represent for the rest of our stacks (and I basically cant call)

[NigDawG]

Didnt see the point of betting like 40 on the turn when a million scare cards can come on the river that he can represent for the rest of our stacks (and I basically cant call)

we bet to protect against the draws not give them for free. if we bet the right amount so that he is not getting the correct price to call relative to the chance of him making a better hand than us, we win at pokers. ez game!

[NigDawG]

also there aren't really a million scarecards. i can think of 8 really big ones, but given the preflop and flop actions i'm not that scared about the blue cards. doubt many blue card combo's raise utg+1 9 handed, call a 3bet OOP and check/call when two blues hit the flop. he's more likely to have a pocket pair or Ax imo.

[outragous76]

also there aren't really a million scarecards. i can think of 8 really big ones, but given the preflop and flop actions i'm not that scared about the blue cards. doubt many blue card combo's raise utg+1 9 handed, call a 3bet OOP and check/call when two blues hit the flop. he's more likely to have a pocket pair or Ax imo.

I can easily see the guy having the flush draw hands here. We both started with 200bb's, so i think calling the flop with a fd is fine in his position.

[NigDawG]

also there aren't really a million scarecards. i can think of 8 really big ones, but given the preflop and flop actions i'm not that scared about the blue cards. doubt many blue card combo's raise utg+1 9 handed, call a 3bet OOP and check/call when two blues hit the flop. he's more likely to have a pocket pair or Ax imo.

I can easily see the guy having the flush draw hands here. We both started with 200bb's, so i think calling the flop with a fd is fine in his position.

ok so why aren't you betting to protect against these diamonds?

edit: his call is more than fine if you are going to give him a free river card lol

[outragous76]

also there aren't really a million scarecards. i can think of 8 really big ones, but given the preflop and flop actions i'm not that scared about the blue cards. doubt many blue card combo's raise utg+1 9 handed, call a 3bet OOP and check/call when two blues hit the flop. he's more likely to have a pocket pair or Ax imo.

I can easily see the guy having the flush draw hands here. We both started with 200bb's, so i think calling the flop with a fd is fine in his position.

ok so why aren't you betting to protect against these diamonds?

edit: his call is more than fine if you are going to give him a free river card lol

im happy to call him off for 40 on the river to catch his bluffs (as stated above i thought he had 77-jj). I would have hated the 4 coming for his Ax hands thou - could have folded to that.

[NigDawG]

also there aren't really a million scarecards. i can think of 8 really big ones, but given the preflop and flop actions i'm not that scared about the blue cards. doubt many blue card combo's raise utg+1 9 handed, call a 3bet OOP and check/call when two blues hit the flop. he's more likely to have a pocket pair or Ax imo.

I can easily see the guy having the flush draw hands here. We both started with 200bb's, so i think calling the flop with a fd is fine in his position.

ok so why aren't you betting to protect against these diamonds?

edit: his call is more than fine if you are going to give him a free river card lol

im happy to call him off for 40 on the river to catch his bluffs (as stated above i thought he had 77-jj). I would have hated the 4 coming for his Ax hands thou - could have folded to that.

i strongly doubt he will bluff river with 77-JJ (you might see some blocker or just straight up value bets) but alot of players will call 2 bets with 77-JJ on this board (whether it be flop and turn or flop and river), some will even call all 3. you are not giving your opponent the chance to make the mistake in calling by checking behind.

and if he does happen to have diamonds, he will probably call a turn bet and might well still bluff river when he misses.

there's also some other factors like making sure its not just really big hands and bluffs or semi bluffs we're betting the turn with, altho as i understand it this might not be anywhere near as important in rush poker