Irish Open

[dousche]

Selling up to 20% at 1.2 (10% = E420 = $568).

Tournament is a E3500 (3200+300) freeze starting this Friday.

My details:

OPRs:
http://officialpokerrankings.com/fulltiltpoker/dousche/poker/results/0D9168CCEDA7431AA47994FC28EDE54F.html?t=2
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bigtax888/poker/results/0915E5A2D40B4CF0B92698E064A05062.html?t=2

HM:
http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=88373


I've played in a few big buyin events - epo, dtd monte carlo, couple of gukpts - and will not be fazed by the size of the tournament. I have a history of decent live results, but not done anything big in the larger ones yet. I think 1.2 is a fair rate for this tournament as it includes a large amount of satellite qualifiers, plus the Irish events are notorious for having large numbers of locals playing who, while they're fun to be around, probably add to most other players' equity.

Obviously this is ridic short notice (someone's buying less than I thought...) so I'll probably need payment by tilt/stars transfer (E420=$568).

Thanks all.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

[dousche]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

Sigh. Can't speak for everyone, but for me because i've been able to support myself for the last couple of years with no other source of income and there's a bunch of costs involved with travelling to/staying at the tournament.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

Sigh. Can't speak for everyone, but for me because i've been able to support myself for the last couple of years with no other source of income and there's a bunch of costs involved with travelling to/staying at the tournament.

You know these costs before you decide to play the tournament yourself don't you?

Why should people buying shares take greater variance than you have to?

Your OPR's are about 1100 tourneys online, which is no sample at all... You're live isn't even 10% of that, hence why I don't understand a mark up.

[GreekStein]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

Sigh. Can't speak for everyone, but for me because i've been able to support myself for the last couple of years with no other source of income and there's a bunch of costs involved with travelling to/staying at the tournament.

You know these costs before you decide to play the tournament yourself don't you?

Why should people buying shares take greater variance than you have to?

Your OPR's are about 1100 tourneys online, which is no sample at all... You're live isn't even 10% of that, hence why I don't understand a mark up.

IPO is a very soft tourney Rooks, plenty of local donks and many satty winners.

With the costs Mike is incurring with accomodation/travel etc I'd say his liability was likely more than 1.2.

Regardless, 1.2 is a fair price.

[EvilPie]

Think you can probably count Rooks out mate.

Good luck at the event. Hope you bink big but not as big as Greekstein as I have a % of him.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Think you can probably count Rooks out mate.

Good luck at the event. Hope you bink big but not as big as Greekstein as I have a % of him.

Lol....

I'm not rooting against the guy, it's just tilted me lately the amount of people that think they deserve or think they are good enough to charge premiums. Especially ones that use the excuse of travel costs etc as reasons why. If you can't afford the flight & hotel, find a tournament closer to home to play!

[810ofclubs]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

as a side point, wat price would u buy a piece at rooks? and wat stats etc would u need to price at 1.2 etc in your opinion?

cheers

[Rookie (Rodney)]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

as a side point, wat price would u buy a piece at rooks? and wat stats etc would u need to price at 1.2 etc in your opinion?

cheers

First off - I don't know OP's game, so i'm going by the stats he's posted.

Like I said he has 1100 games online in his OPR's - which as you know is not much of a sample size.. He's won some $k on Tilt yes, but lost some on Stars (who isn't a long term loser on there anyway?)

His live looks good, but as he said himself he's only played a few of larger buyin events. I would consider buying at 1.0, because OP seems from his small sample, a competent player (no disrespect intended but I don't know you), if however, OP had been on here before and asked for staking at 1.0, some people had taken %'s, and he binked for them - no doubt those people he binked for would want to take %'s again, thats when it would be ok to ask for a bit of a mark up..

I don't know how people asking for staking can, on the most part (unless a well known proven player), can ask for premiums. Especially for reasons like to cover travel costs.

Would you like to answer my first question now Toby? And also tell me why OP in particular should get away with selling @ 1.2..

[810ofclubs]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

as a side point, wat price would u buy a piece at rooks? and wat stats etc would u need to price at 1.2 etc in your opinion?

cheers

First off - I don't know OP's game, so i'm going by the stats he's posted.

Like I said he has 1100 games online in his OPR's - which as you know is not much of a sample size.. He's won some $k on Tilt yes, but lost some on Stars (who isn't a long term loser on there anyway?)

His live looks good, but as he said himself he's only played a few of larger buyin events. I would consider buying at 1.0, because OP seems from his small sample, a competent player (no disrespect intended but I don't know you), if however, OP had been on here before and asked for staking at 1.0, some people had taken %'s, and he binked for them - no doubt those people he binked for would want to take %'s again, thats when it would be ok to ask for a bit of a mark up..

I don't know how people asking for staking can, on the most part (unless a well known proven player), can ask for premiums. Especially for reasons like to cover travel costs.

Would you like to answer my first question now Toby? And also tell me why OP in particular should get away with selling @ 1.2..

well i think its a interesting point and i agree with u partly and agree with cos and mike also, i sold my ept stake at 1.2 and i believe it came under some criticism and maybe i should hav sold at 1.0 as my results werent and are still not amazing, but i do believe that there should b some bartering goin on as were doing this as a job / 2nd income (as large % of blondes are) and if some1 is willing to pay an increased rate for the stake that should b ok too. tbh im on the fence with this, next time some1 offers 1.2 and i think its borderline ill offer 1.1 or 1.0 and see wat they say could b interesting. agree with the travel costs cover up aswell thats a load of bs

[Rookie (Rodney)]

lol, why does absolutely everyone think they are good enough to sell at a premium nowadays?

as a side point, wat price would u buy a piece at rooks? and wat stats etc would u need to price at 1.2 etc in your opinion?

cheers

First off - I don't know OP's game, so i'm going by the stats he's posted.

Like I said he has 1100 games online in his OPR's - which as you know is not much of a sample size.. He's won some $k on Tilt yes, but lost some on Stars (who isn't a long term loser on there anyway?)

His live looks good, but as he said himself he's only played a few of larger buyin events. I would consider buying at 1.0, because OP seems from his small sample, a competent player (no disrespect intended but I don't know you), if however, OP had been on here before and asked for staking at 1.0, some people had taken %'s, and he binked for them - no doubt those people he binked for would want to take %'s again, thats when it would be ok to ask for a bit of a mark up..

I don't know how people asking for staking can, on the most part (unless a well known proven player), can ask for premiums. Especially for reasons like to cover travel costs.

Would you like to answer my first question now Toby? And also tell me why OP in particular should get away with selling @ 1.2..

well i think its a interesting point and i agree with u partly and agree with cos and mike also, i sold my ept stake at 1.2 and i believe it came under some criticism and maybe i should hav sold at 1.0 as my results werent and are still not amazing, but i do believe that there should b some bartering goin on as were doing this as a job / 2nd income (as large % of blondes are) and if some1 is willing to pay an increased rate for the stake that should b ok too. tbh im on the fence with this, next time some1 offers 1.2 and i think its borderline ill offer 1.1 or 1.0 and see wat they say could b interesting. agree with the travel costs cover up aswell thats a load of bs

Cool yeah, I know what your saying. I just think that if your asking for staking you should ask @ 1.0.. If someones offering staking you are entitled to tell them whatever price you like. I suppose you are entitled anyway, just think that sometimes people are paying too much on these boards (unintentionally by both partys may I add - just people seeing other people getting bought in at a premium and thinking they can do that too).

[dousche]

While I agree that the costs/expenses thing doesn't come into people's equity in the comp and therefore the competitive rate they should be able to charge, I think that it's not just a 'cover up.'

I am of the opinion that I have a decent edge over the field and feel that by offering 1.2 I am giving up some of that edge, I am also aware that potential stakers have significantly less knowledge regarding my abilities than I do (a small sample of good-ish results plus any other knowledge regarding my game). In order to negate this lack of information I am willing to offer a lower rate than what I think I may be worth. There is a limit as to how far I will reduce this rate though, and that depends on a couple of things imo - people's willingness to buy at certain rates and other costs associated with playing the comp. You think that, given the information available to you, this rate is still too high. That's fair enough, that's your prerogative. Some people might think differently. Imo the edges in live comps are far greater than those online, so whatever you think my online roi could be given that small sample and any other info you might have/get, my live one is likely to be larger as the standard of play is worse and live tells are included.

Back when staking arrangements started popping up around here people were throwing money at people that were offering rates around 1.4-1.5 without thinking twice, the market has corrected itself however and I feel that now both sides of the market are a little more aware of the maths/stats involved and people are making much more sensible requests and offers.

I'm not trying to squeeze money out of people, you can see that I've bought pieces of people at similar, if not greater rates in the past so I really do think this is fair. And I know its nothing personal, I don't take it that way at all. It is an interesting debate and its a topic that probably hasn't been debated enough on here, with many people just going with whatever has gone before, as you say.

[Royal Flush]

but lost some on Stars (who isn't a long term loser on there anyway?)

 

[Cf]

I went for a 1.2 premium on my current staking thread. I think it's the first time I've charged one, everything else I've sold has been at face value.

The reason is purely for the expenses. Whenever we sell action we include reg fees. Eg, the UKIPT is £500+£60. Selling 10% at 1.0 would be £56. Yet from an equity pov and using your logic rooks we should be selling this 10% for £50 as we know about the £60 expense before hand. Travel/accomodation/food&drink@dtd are all going to cost a fair bit making the tournament realistically cost more to play than £560. Selling at 1.2 helps cover this slightly, but i'm still paying most of the costs myself. If people wish to back me, help me with costs, and have a shot at a nice prize in a up to 800 runner tournament then I welcome it. If not then that's fine, I'll be playing this one anyway.

Note that I do agree charging 1.4 or whatever on higher buyins (£1000+) is excessive as at this point we're simply claiming to have a massive edge and want paying accordingly. Only a few select people in my mind can get away with asking for this.

[Longy]

If I take 10% in someone at 1.2 do I get 10% of their food and drinks sent to me?