Call / Pass FT short stack

[Splash]

Final table of online with 12k prize pool and 3.5k for 1st.... 7th pays about 450.

Blinds are 2k/4k with running ante you are currently 7th of 7 with 37k in the SB.  Double up will see you go 2nd as everyone else bar the chip leader is 40-75k range. 

You hold ... passed round to the button who insta shoves his 45k stack.    Simple pass/call? 

Not that exciting i know but prompted some debate.

[EvilPie]

Pass for me.

Yeah you could easily be ahead but you're not quite desperate enough to get it in with K high.

[Eck]

If he is half decent he is shoving a huge range I am getting them in here normally or I could fold and get  for the next 7 hands.

[the rage]

Good question. I think i will go for the pass too. I need to get a better understanding of that ICM stuff, but a fold looks ok to me.

[The_nun]

I'm 50/50 on this one, I would obv prefer to be the shover,  I think i will edge on the folding side.

[outragous76]

prob calling when this short

[Moskvich]

If you were BB and shover was in the SB and decent then this is probably a call, but I think calling this from the SB is probably a pretty big ICM mistake. It's tempting to think that the button is shoving wide here in an unopened pot, but the stacks are closely bunched and he's through the blinds, so it's very doubtful that he's got all the Kx and Qx hands in his range that you need to be dominating to call this. Obviously if he's shoving mainly pairs and Ax hands then calling with KQ is terrible.

Also, this looks like one of those hands where if it's a call it's only a call by a small-ish margin, whereas if it's a fold it could well be a really big fold. So you're only ever making a small mistake by passing incorrectly, but if you call incorrectly it's likely to be a much, much more sizeable boo-boo.

[outragous76]

If you were BB and shover was in the SB and decent then this is probably a call, but I think calling this from the SB is probably a pretty big ICM mistake. It's tempting to think that the button is shoving wide here in an unopened pot, but the stacks are closely bunched and he's through the blinds, so it's very doubtful that he's got all the Kx and Qx hands in his range that you need to be dominating to call this. Obviously if he's shoving mainly pairs and Ax hands then calling with KQ is terrible.

Also, this looks like one of those hands where if it's a call it's only a call by a small-ish margin, whereas if it's a fold it could well be a really big fold. So you're only ever making a small mistake by passing incorrectly, but if you call incorrectly it's likely to be a much, much more sizeable boo-boo.

take AA KK out of his range and I am pretty sure that this statement is very wrong

you can profitbaly shove any 2 here as the button - therefore im not sure why you have him on such a narrow range.

as for the comment about him just paying the blinds, this makes him more inclinded to shove not less

[outragous76]

fwiw

ext results appended to pokerstove.txt

   1,691,756,352  games     1.794 secs   943,008,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    56.050%     55.76%    00.29%         943338520      4899064.00   { QQ-22, A2s+, A2o+ }
Hand 1:    43.950%     43.66%    00.29%         738619704      4899064.00   { KQs }


---

[mondatoo]

I might've missed this but what is BB stack ?

Any info on villain,I prob sigh fold here vs unknown and shove atc unopened next hand.

[outragous76]

I might've missed this but what is BB stack ?

Any info on villain,I prob sigh fold here vs unknown and shove atc unopened next hand.

is the villain not doing this?

[Doobs]

Who is the villain?

a) It would be easier to come up with a range if I knew, and b) I would also know whether the "debating" was standard for him.  There are a few there who seem keen to "debate" for months after a hand.

And if you don't know him, you must have some idea how many hands he is playing/shoving?

[mondatoo]

I might've missed this but what is BB stack ?

Any info on villain,I prob sigh fold here vs unknown and shove atc unopened next hand.

is the villain not doing this?

Not necessarily no,with no info on villain we can't just assume he knows what he's doing.VS unknown It's more likely that he'll be a nit trying to luddderrr and has a hand than his shoving ranges are correct in this spot.

[Splash]

Doobs... Benzone ... no real info on him we'd only met up at final table 10mins b4.... did think to myself a few mins before that he was prob getting a bit twitchy and looking to pick up a pot but thst was more a gut feeling based on a few dwells and passes he'd made. 

BB had us both covered but not by much.

[GreekStein]

If I'm currently 7th of 7 im getting em in here.

Lets gambooooooool.

KQss is sooo pretty