2nd hand on fimal table - interesting 3 way pot - critique all 3 players

[Lucky]

Live MTT £100 buy in.  10,000 starting stack. Only 22 runners (World Cup impact)

2nd hand of 10 handed final table. Average stack is 22,000 and blinds are 300/600/50

I'm in SB with c 30,000

BB has c 38,000

Seat 10 has c 20,000

Limped to me in Small Blind, I make up with K7 and BB checks.

Flop is KK9, 2 spades.

I check, BB (a strong player, capable of making moves) leads for 1,000 and seat 10 a very accomplished deep thinking player, raises to 4,000. What should I do and why?

(I'll post turn and river cards and action later and will be interested in views on all 3 players).

[NoflopsHomer]

Fold pre. Flat now.

[GreekStein]

Fold pre. Flat now.

^^This but that's not hugely helpful without explanation...

You can't raise because you turn your hand into a bluff.

You can't fold because our hand is too strong. Live players can be raising hands as bluffs here, raising to find out whether their pair or 9 is good (lol - it happens!)

I'm not expecting to get bluffed on the turn because our hand now looks so strong.

[Lucky]

Fold pre. Flat now.

^^This but that's not hugely helpful without explanation...

You can't raise because you turn your hand into a bluff.

You can't fold because our hand is too strong. Live players can be raising hands as bluffs here, raising to find out whether their pair or 9 is good (lol - it happens!)

I'm not expecting to get bluffed on the turn because our hand now looks so strong.

I expected the fold pre comment.  I think making up the small blind may be a leak in my game, but is it really all that bad calling 300 into a pot of 2,000 (blinds, antes and one limp)?

[Longy]

Fold pre. Flat now.

^^This but that's not hugely helpful without explanation...

You can't raise because you turn your hand into a bluff.

You can't fold because our hand is too strong. Live players can be raising hands as bluffs here, raising to find out whether their pair or 9 is good (lol - it happens!)

I'm not expecting to get bluffed on the turn because our hand now looks so strong.

I expected the fold pre comment.  I think making up the small blind may be a leak in my game, but is it really all that bad calling 300 into a pot of 2,000 (blinds, antes and one limp)?

Reverse implied odds.

This hand is a good example actually, we basically flop one of the best hands we could and still could be wayyyy behind as there are a lot kx hands that could be in either players hand.

[doubleup]

..Limped to me in Small Blind, .....

...seat 10 a very accomplished deep thinking player, ....

Does the accomplished deep thinking player limp a lot?  

Have limpers normally been isolated at the table/in the tourney?

[silverslick]

If first player can make moves his range is wide. The deep thinking player should know this, would he raise to take it away? I can' t see a reason to fold trips. You either call or raise. A better king is possible so i call here.

[Lucky]

..Limped to me in Small Blind, .....

...seat 10 a very accomplished deep thinking player, ....

Does the accomplished deep thinking player limp a lot?    No

Have limpers normally been isolated at the table/in the tourney?  Not really but this is a new final table.

[Lucky]

If first player can make moves his range is wide. The deep thinking player should know this, would he raise to take it away? I can' t see a reason to fold trips. You either call or raise. A better king is possible so i call here.

This was my thinking entirely. BB could be taking a stab, representing strength on a paired board. The 2nd player is good enough to know this and raise to take it away. Given this, I felt a call would  be best.

BB now has a long dwell, trying to get a read from me and seeming genuinely puzzled as to what we may have. I now think he may have the other king.

The Turn is a Jack.  What do I do now and why ?

[the rage]

I would check again. Then i would re-assess depending on the action. Either the BB or seat 10 may have been betting the flush and / or straight draw. I'm thinking that seat 10, putting a fair amount of his stack in may have had a very strong draw, such as QJ suited, or maybe just the NFD. Either way, i would check and await the response from the two other combatants.

[Lucky]

Fold pre. Flat now.

^^This but that's not hugely helpful without explanation...

You can't raise because you turn your hand into a bluff.

You can't fold because our hand is too strong. Live players can be raising hands as bluffs here, raising to find out whether their pair or 9 is good (lol - it happens!)

I'm not expecting to get bluffed on the turn because our hand now looks so strong.

I expected the fold pre comment.  I think making up the small blind may be a leak in my game, but is it really all that bad calling 300 into a pot of 2,000 (blinds, antes and one limp)?

Reverse implied odds.

This hand is a good example actually, we basically flop one of the best hands we could and still could be wayyyy behind as there are a lot kx hands that could be in either players hand.

Thanks for the reply and point taken.  Should we generally be more worried about the reverse implied odds (especially if dominated) than we are by the (to me) enticing 7-1 pot odds?

Should we fold all weak SB hands or just those in danger of being dominated - ie is (say) 6 7 a better call than K 7 - or are they both easy folds?

[outragous76]

Fold pre. Flat now.

^^This but that's not hugely helpful without explanation...

You can't raise because you turn your hand into a bluff.

You can't fold because our hand is too strong. Live players can be raising hands as bluffs here, raising to find out whether their pair or 9 is good (lol - it happens!)

I'm not expecting to get bluffed on the turn because our hand now looks so strong.

I expected the fold pre comment.  I think making up the small blind may be a leak in my game, but is it really all that bad calling 300 into a pot of 2,000 (blinds, antes and one limp)?

Reverse implied odds.

This hand is a good example actually, we basically flop one of the best hands we could and still could be wayyyy behind as there are a lot kx hands that could be in either players hand.

Thanks for the reply and point taken.  Should we generally be more worried about the reverse implied odds (especially if dominated) than we are by the (to me) enticing 7-1 pot odds?

Should we fold all weak SB hands or just those in danger of being dominated - ie is (say) 6 7 a better call than K 7 - or are they both easy folds?

alan (good to meet you too btw - sorry forgot to say that)

As a default you should be folding, however if i have  a suited connector or suited 1 gapper getting 7:1 im finding it difficult to fold. Your point about domintaed holdings is very vaild thou

[NigDawG]

i fold pre and fold the flop as played

[EvilPie]

i fold pre and fold the flop as played

This is why NigDawG's the best.

[GreekStein]

i fold pre and fold the flop as played

This is why NigDawG's the best.

Why do you fold the flop Chris?