Random Scientific Dog Question

[EvilPie]

Any average dog (i.e. not one with inbred defects) could out walk any human by a factor of about 10

so if we can find a man who can walk for 24 hours any average dog can walk for 10 days?

Yes. I was thinking more in terms of distance than time but basically, yes. (Proberly)

The question was whether the dog would be more tired though. I'm pretty sure that when I walk 8 miles with Ronnie he's actually more tired than me.

The thing with a dog is that they have an ability to ignore fatigue and just keep going whereas a human will make the sensible decision and stop.

So yes an average dog can almost definitely walk further than the average human but I think he'd be just as tired.

Saying that the average dog could out walk every human by a factor of 10 is a bit of a stretch as well. An average dog compared to an elite human could be tough.

[TightPaulFolds]

Any average dog (i.e. not one with inbred defects) could out walk any human by a factor of about 10

so if we can find a man who can walk for 24 hours any average dog can walk for 10 days?

Yes. I was thinking more in terms of distance than time but basically, yes. (Proberly)

The question was whether the dog would be more tired though. I'm pretty sure that when I walk 8 miles with Ronnie he's actually more tired than me.

The thing with a dog is that they have an ability to ignore fatigue and just keep going whereas a human will make the sensible decision and stop.

So yes an average dog can almost definitely walk further than the average human but I think he'd be just as tired.

Saying that the average dog could out walk every human by a factor of 10 is a bit of a stretch as well. An average dog compared to an elite human could be tough.

The influence of bipedalism on the energy and water budgets of early hominids
Purchase the full-text article



References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

P.E. Wheeler

School of Natural Sciences, Liverpool Polytechnic, Byrom Street, Liverpool L3 3AF, U.K.
Received 26 July 1989;
revised 11 March 1991;
accepted 13 March 1991.
Available online 21 October 2005.

A model is described for estimating the net thermal loads, and associated demands for drinking water, experienced by bipedal and quadrupedal hominids in open equatorial environments. Comparisons of the results obtained with the thermoregulatory capabilities of living primates indicate that the equatorial African savannah would have been a difficult habitat for hominoids to exploit. However, under all temperature regimes examined distinct advantages would have been conferred by bipedalism, allowing hominids to forage at higher temperatures and over greater distances, while consuming less food and water, than quadrupeds.

Keywords: bipedalism; energetics; evaporative cooling; hominid; hyperthermia; locomotion; thermoregulation; water consumption

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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070716191140.htm

Study Identifies Energy Efficiency As Reason For Evolution Of Upright Walking

ScienceDaily (July 17, 2007) — A new study provides support for the hypothesis that walking on two legs, or bipedalism, evolved because it used less energy than quadrupedal knucklewalking.  (Dogs aren't knucklewalkers, but still...)

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Article
Bioenergetics and the origin of hominid bipedalism
Peter S. Rodman, Henry M. McHenry
Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis, California 05616

Keywords
Bipedalism • Energetics • Miocene hominoid • Pliocene hominid

Abstract
Compared to most quadrupedal mammals, humans are energetically inefficient when running at high speeds. This fact can be taken to mean that human bipedalism evolved for reasons other than to reduce relative energy cost during locomotion. Recalculation of the energy expended during human walking at normal speeds shows that (1) human bipedalism is at least as efficient as typical mammalian quadrupedalism and (2) human gait is much more efficient than bipedal or quadrupedal locomotion in the chimpanzee. We conclude that bipedalism bestowed an energetic advantage on the Miocene hominoid ancestors of the Hominidae.

[EvilPie]

I think that if you started a human and a dog off on a walking contest with no food and no water allowed the human would actually out walk the dog before collapsing and dying.

Given access to food and drink though the recovery rate and metabolism of the dog would mean that it could out walk the human by a huge amount as the dog wouldn't suffer from muscle fatigue in the same way.

At some point though no matter what happens they are both gonna need a kip and the tortoise will be victorious once again.

[RED-DOG]

Just been on a long walk with my dog and I wondered, will my dog be more tired

yes

 because he has to move twice as many legs

no, the main work is the movement of the body weight, two extra swinging legs doesn't add that much weight

 or will he be less tired because he has less relative weight to move on each leg?

The distribution of weight on each leg is not a significant factor overall.

Obviously ignoring the fact I can take much longer strides etc Anyone got any idea?

Your dog is more tired because he is quadrupedal and you are bipedal, bipedalism is a more efficient form of locomotion at walking paces at least, over flat ground. You lean forward, weight on one foot, and gravity swings your leg forward, repeat. This "gravity swing" is much less present in quadrupeds as far as I can see.

ARRRGGHH!!! Can't stand it any longer. This answer is total tripe.

Any average dog (i.e. not one with inbred defects) could out walk any human by a factor of about 10.

What makes you think that canine quadrupedalism is much more efficient than human bipedalism (by a factor of 10 by the sound of your post, presuming they have similar energy storage: weight ratios) ?
[/quote]

Experience. (Plus I don't make those assumptions)

I'm not talking about quadrupedalism v bipedalism per se, I'm talking about dogs v people, which just so happen to be quadruped & biped respectively.

I may have been a bit optomistic in my 10/1 estimate, but a dog could definitely walk several times further and, btw, actually does. When a dog walks off lead it actually covers about 3 times the distance covered by it's owner.

Matt. Ronnie is not an average dog. Rotties are unusually heavy. They are selectively bred to do a specific job. Walking isn't it.

[TightPaulFolds]

Just been on a long walk with my dog and I wondered, will my dog be more tired

yes

 because he has to move twice as many legs

no, the main work is the movement of the body weight, two extra swinging legs doesn't add that much weight

 or will he be less tired because he has less relative weight to move on each leg?

The distribution of weight on each leg is not a significant factor overall.

Obviously ignoring the fact I can take much longer strides etc Anyone got any idea?

Your dog is more tired because he is quadrupedal and you are bipedal, bipedalism is a more efficient form of locomotion at walking paces at least, over flat ground. You lean forward, weight on one foot, and gravity swings your leg forward, repeat. This "gravity swing" is much less present in quadrupeds as far as I can see.

ARRRGGHH!!! Can't stand it any longer. This answer is total tripe.

Any average dog (i.e. not one with inbred defects) could out walk any human by a factor of about 10.

What makes you think that canine quadrupedalism is much more efficient than human bipedalism (by a factor of 10 by the sound of your post, presuming they have similar energy storage: weight ratios) ?

Experience. (Plus I don't make those assumptions)

I'm not talking about quadrupedalism v bipedalism per se, I'm talking about dogs v people, which just so happen to be quadruped & biped respectively.

I may have been a bit optomistic in my 10/1 estimate, but a dog could definitely walk several times further and, btw, actually does. When a dog walks off lead it actually covers about 3 times the distance covered by it's owner.

Matt. Ronnie is not an average dog. Rotties are unusually heavy. They are selectively bred to do a specific job. Walking isn't it.
[/quote]



Now we have experience and a nice video. The dogs have it


It would seem to me that the overriding factor in a massive efficiency gain would be by the dogs being quadrupedal, and this being better than bipedal. The evidence shows that the latter isn't true, so what is it then about dogs that makes them able to walk much further as you claim? You stopped walking and the dog just kept on going? The dog was walking faster than you?

[EvilPie]

Matt. Ronnie is not an average dog. Rotties are unusually heavy. They are selectively bred to do a specific job. Walking isn't it.

Is it generally scaring people and shouting at the postman?

[thetank]

Say we take yer big dog (bow wow) and yer little human (fine weather we're having) and they both weigh the same amount in pounds and pence. We walk them in a straight line (no pissing about off the lead, that means you too dog) for 10 millimiles, who has expended the most energy in jigojoules? 

[RioRodent]

Say we take yer big dog (bow wow) and yer little human (fine weather we're having) and they both weigh the same amount in pounds and pence. We walk them in a straight line (no pissing about off the lead, that means you too dog) for 10 millimiles, who has expended the most energy in jigojoules? 

And....

If it takes a man a week to walk a fortnight and there are 795 yards of smoke in a sack of soot - How many bubbles are there in a bar of soap?

[DaveShoelace]

Wow, never thought this thread would get past 1 page. I think whatever the answer to Tanks question is essentially the answer to my OP.

Also didnt think of breed until now, obviously a heavy set dog will struggle compared to say a collie. I have a labrador, nice thin working dog, but he is a right lazy little sod.

I like dogs.

[RED-DOG]

Say we take yer big dog (bow wow) and yer little human (fine weather we're having) and they both weigh the same amount in pounds and pence. We walk them in a straight line (no pissing about off the lead, that means you too dog) for 10 millimiles, who has expended the most energy in jigojoules? 

Does it matter if the dog is an elephant that has been sandpapered down to a greyhound?

[gatso]

what if we're on snow? pretty sure the siberian huskey is going to pwn any man

[EvilPie]

what if we're on snow? pretty sure the siberian huskey is going to pwn any man

Without the aid of a coat you're probably right.

[sovietsong]

Billie > Me

/thread

[erse]

Just been on a long walk with my dog and I wondered, will my dog be more tired because he has to move twice as many legs or will he be less tired because he has less relative weight to move on each leg?

Obviously ignoring the fact I can take much longer strides etc Anyone got any idea?

As covered it's going to depend on a lot of personal factors rather than a general blanket answer

- Have you both been slept and ate well, and are not suffering any illnesses
- Whether you and the dog have all your legs & arms.
- How much the dog is 'pissing about'. I had a border collie, and walking six miles for me would be probably double for him.
- The dog may have 4 legs and consume more energy that way, but if you're a bit of a podger then you're heart's going to have to work harder.

At the end of the day, if you didn't have to carry your dog home, you were probably 'more' tired, or neither of you were very tired at all. It was your decision to finish the walk halfway into it... unless the dog had a say. He seems to have made it back with you so one can only assume you were fecking knackered or the dog is disappointed with its short walk.