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boldie
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 01:57:51 PM » |
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Completing with 64o is just about ok I think.
I'd be tempted to lead the flop. You may well get raised if they think you're just taking a stab and you can then push over that raise.
As played though I think I flat call. We might struggle for action if we hit our straight, but we're just about getting immediate pot odds to draw to it.
what he said what do you hope for when flatting here against 2 oppos? That you'll hit your straight and then get no action? That an overcard comes and you can sigh fold? I reckon a flat is worse than folding here IMO. I much prefer leading the flop and shoving over a raise. As played I don't think we're going to be able to raise enough to get rid of both players, but folding just feels too weak when we've hit the flop so massively. I don't want to get rid of both players...I want them both in so I can treble up  |
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Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 01:58:27 PM » |
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  Like. |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 02:00:44 PM » |
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If we ship and get called we should be a lot worse than 50/50 a good percentage of the time imo
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 02:08:21 PM » |
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Agree complete is a leak. Too shallow vs one loose cannon villain and one confident villain who bets a lot of flops. I like the c-jam line now because anything else seems a bit complicated and messy.
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GreekStein
Hero Member
Hero Member
 Offline
Posts: 20728
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2010, 03:21:48 PM » |
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completing 64o here is a leak.
Agree complete is a leak.
*tries to change mind so it's the optimal play* Just can't, sigh. |
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@GreekStein on twitter.
Retired Policeman, Part time troll.
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Amatay
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2010, 03:32:37 PM » |
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LOL you bunch of live fish.
completing 64o here is a leak.
is it really that big of a deal? |
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There is no better feeling than rocking up in a city for the first time, with nowhere to stay and everything new - so liberating.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2010, 03:35:47 PM » |
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completing 64o here is a leak.
Agree complete is a leak.
*tries to change mind so it's the optimal play* Just can't, sigh. Quoted for evidence. |
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
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DMorgan
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2010, 03:43:23 PM » |
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Completing here is fine as long as you're taking some stabs yourself and you're not just hoping to flop the nuts.
I think that bet/shove and check/raise are both viable lines. I really don't like jamming 15k over a bet and call of 1200. This pretty much turns your hand face up imo.
I make it 5k and jam any turn.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2010, 03:48:03 PM » |
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...This pretty much turns your hand face up imo.
...
Does it matter? I would have thought that if either of the other 2 players has a hand that they'd call with when they 'know' what your hand is; then it would be a hand that they'd call with if they don't 'know' it. I'd check raise all in with aim of winning the pot, with a backup of hoping to hold if they were the types to call with overcards, and with the draw if they already had a stronger hand than you. |
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - 2007 Razz Champion
2007 WSOP Razz - 13/341
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2010, 04:08:41 PM » |
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The bb is tagged as a confident player who is taking stabs at pots both pre and post. People who advocate the call thus far are assuming we are always seeing a flop. UTG has a very wide range and hero's range is polarised as medium/weak hands. Seems a good spot for bb villain with 2x the chips to be cranking it up.
btw, it's nice to see Greekstein showing signs of improvement.
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Tikay - "He has a proven track record in business, he is articulate, intelligent, & presents his cases well"
Claw75 - "Mantis is not only a blonde legend he's also very easy on the eye"
Outragous76 - "a really nice certainly intelligent guy"
taximan007 & Girgy85 & Celtic & Laxie - <3 Mantis
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bobAlike
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« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2010, 09:18:46 PM » |
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 FYP |
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Ah! The element of surprise
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kinboshi
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« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2010, 10:46:19 PM » |
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 FYP FYFYP |
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
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DMorgan
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« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2010, 11:56:04 PM » |
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...This pretty much turns your hand face up imo.
...
Does it matter? I would have thought that if either of the other 2 players has a hand that they'd call with when they 'know' what your hand is; then it would be a hand that they'd call with if they don't 'know' it. Of course it matters. Jamming here pretty much takes all sets and straights out of your range, possibly 2 pair hands aswell. Your range is now massively weighted towards hands like the one that you have, plus some decent draws, looks a lot like diamonds with overs aswell. It means that you should get snapcalled by hands like small overpairs that were limped pre and 5x hands that have good equity against us. The whole point of check/shoving is that it folds out some weaker made hands that have decent equity against us. Shoving here doesn't accomplish that against a thinking player. Now of course you could argue that most of the regulars in this tournament aren't thinking on that level and will happily pass their A5 because they can 'find a better spot' or whatever. You'd almost certainly be right and so I'd agree that shoving here is fine, but while it might not matter much in this situation against this field, against tougher players this move isn't going to be as effective imo. |
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EvilPie
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« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2010, 11:58:59 PM » |
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 | Click to see full-size image. |
 FYP FYFYP FYFYFYP |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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