Showing Bluffs EV

[cambridgealex]

"Never show your cards, always keep them guessing". This is what I was always heard, but I can´t help but question it. I started thinking about this having recently watched Lex Veldhuis at the WSOP 09 ME showing bluff after bluff, 2 or 3 big ones to the same guy, getting him so rattled that he ended up cold 4bet shoving 76hearts over the top of Lex`s 3bet, only to have Lex make the genius call with K4spades!

On the one hand, people argue that showing bluffs will get you paid off in the future, on the other, after showing that bluff, all future bluffs at that table will be much harder to pull off, and you´ll have to be much more patient. So does it come down to whether if we`re betting or raising, do we want folds more often than we want calls?? For the majority of players when they are betting or raising (concerning later streets and bigger bets, rather than C-bet-type "bluffs") they are indeed not bluffing and want to be called. So does this imply showing the odd river bluff is  +EV? Is the same true for 4bet bluffs for example? Most of our 4betting range will be premium hands so showing the occasional bluff will get us more action from weaker hands in the future. Right?

What about the opposite, showing our strong hands? E.g. AK on K high board, having raised pre and cbet, opponent folds, show him he made a good fold. He wont learn anything about our game (wow we raise pre with AK and bet a K high board), but he will respect our future cbets, when we will want folds more often than calls.

Being a LAG live cash game player, i´m opening a lot of pots and cbetting frequently - I find that actually I want people to fold more often than call, so is showing bluffs -EV? I`ve learnt the hard way that trippling barrelling in this games rarely works, so I don`t try not too* do it often. When I do however, and it gets through, showing it is surely +EV given that it distorts our opponents range of our 3rd bullets into thinking that it is a bluff far more often than it actually is.

What about the etiquettes of this issue?

[Moskvich]

Surely the biggest problem with showing cards (apart from the fact that it often makes you look like a bit of a tosser imo...) is that it's much harder for you to keep track of all the information you're giving out than it is for everyone else at the table.

You're showing cards to maybe 8 other people, some of whom are paying no attention, some of whom might be drunk, some of whom just might not understand what you're showing... So how on earth are you going to know how that information is going to have been retained, processed, interpreted by some random guy in seat 3 who you find yourself in a pot with a week later.

The danger is that you end up effectively levelling yourself into doing something daft, because you convince yourself that showing a card or two previously has made him do something unorthodox, when actually he's just taking a standard line as always. Much better and easier to give as little information as possible, not least because it takes this extra variable - how that information will be interpreted - out of the equation.

[StuartHopkin]

Showing cards is just terrible, it just means your handing out pieces of the jigsaw that is your game.

[Mitch]

After c-bet bluffing, will you be using this poker face?

[Mitch]

On a serious note, people dont fold in live cash games anyway, i like to show occasional random bullshit so i can make my value bets redic big and get paid off by people who refuse to fold middle pair to a 'bluffer'.

Its just important to know your own image, which is obv easier to do at DTD in a small player pool, but online I think its def a mistake to show bluffs.

[DMorgan]

If you're playing a laggy style you're gunna be looking for folds way more often than you're looking for calls so you shouldn't really be showing any bluffs. If you reckon you can get a guy with a big stack on tilt then I guess theres some merit to it but I'm still not a big fan.

Personally with the reactions you get from some people its really hard not to show a big bluff live for pure comedy value. I definitely show waaaaaaay too often

[George2Loose]

I don't show anymore because I level myself enough anyway

[titaniumbean]

I don't show anymore because I level myself enough anyway

   

[AlexMartin]

only show cards when you are playing much less skilled players, you will know when you are good enough to use showing cards well enough for it to be +EV.

[david3103]

One of the better bits of advice I've been given on Blonde was the nugget "If you're not getting caught bluffing then you're not bluffing enough."
It's rarely a good idea to show especially if, like me, you're some way from being the best player at the table.

[Graham C]

only show cards when you are playing much less skilled players, you will know when you are good enough to use showing cards well enough for it to be +EV.

I get shown quite a lot..............

agree with the statement though

[cambridgealex]

On a serious note, people dont fold in live cash games anyway, i like to show occasional random bullshit so i can make my value bets redic big and get paid off by people who refuse to fold middle pair to a 'bluffer'.

Its just important to know your own image, which is obv easier to do at DTD in a small player pool, but online I think its def a mistake to show bluffs.

thanks for that serous note mitch, although *seriously* how are you going to ever read that pokerface?

im talking live yes, and i agree its important to know your own image. but surely showing the occasional random bullshit makes those big bluffs harder to pull off? or do you rarely pull off big moves these days cos you`re a "bluffer"? once you have that image, do you just focus on getting paid massive all the time? cos like you said ppl dont fold in live cash.

[cambridgealex]

only show cards when you are playing much less skilled players, you will know when you are good enough to use showing cards well enough for it to be +EV.

i generally do play much less skilled players, if i may say so myself (DTD, Gala, Alea .50/1 etc - so NOT a brag in the slightest)

[duncthehat]

only show cards when you are playing much less skilled players, you will know when you are good enough to use showing cards well enough for it to be +EV.

I get shown quite a lot..............

agree with the statement though

Now i know why i get shown my opponents cards every time!  Learn something new on this forum everyday!!

[Mitch]

On a serious note, people dont fold in live cash games anyway, i like to show occasional random bullshit so i can make my value bets redic big and get paid off by people who refuse to fold middle pair to a 'bluffer'.

Its just important to know your own image, which is obv easier to do at DTD in a small player pool, but online I think its def a mistake to show bluffs.

thanks for that serous note mitch, although *seriously* how are you going to ever read that pokerface?

im talking live yes, and i agree its important to know your own image. but surely showing the occasional random bullshit makes those big bluffs harder to pull off? or do you rarely pull off big moves these days cos you`re a "bluffer"? once you have that image, do you just focus on getting paid massive all the time? cos like you said ppl dont fold in live cash.

No, I still try the big bluffs against people who are never folding, get called, tilt up, say to myself ''FFS im never gonna try and bluff one of these morons again"

De tilt.

Try it again. Cycle continues...