DTD Ruling at request of Simon Trumper

[GreekStein]

lol guy

[SuuPRlim]

Am I the only one that thinks, in a hand that is heads up, either player should be allowed to reveal any of his cards at any time, still be allowed to make any actions he see's fit and get o penalty afterwards

Seriously I see no reason why this shouldn't be absoluelty fine???

[StuartHopkin]

Am I the only one that thinks, in a hand that is heads up, either player should be allowed to reveal any of his cards at any time, still be allowed to make any actions he see's fit and get o penalty afterwards

Seriously I see no reason why this shouldn't be absoluelty fine???

I agree with you!

If everyone wants to play with their hands face up apart from me Im up for that too.

[Cf]

Am I the only one that thinks, in a hand that is heads up, either player should be allowed to reveal any of his cards at any time, still be allowed to make any actions he see's fit and get o penalty afterwards

Seriously I see no reason why this shouldn't be absoluelty fine???

In cash then fine as once heads up it really is only down to you two.

In tournaments though it's unfair on everyone else still in the tournament. eg, we're nearing the bubble and we're heads up in a pot. i suspect you're on a draw so show my hand to prove to you that I have it and you don't have the odds to call. As a result you fold - but actually, if you'd have called (which you would have done knowing that my range includes bluffs/worsedraws) then you'd have won and the bubble would have burst. Me showing my hand is unfair on everyone else in this spot.

Once the tournament is heads up it's fine - show to your hearts content.

[kinboshi]

Am I the only one that thinks, in a hand that is heads up, either player should be allowed to reveal any of his cards at any time, still be allowed to make any actions he see's fit and get o penalty afterwards

Seriously I see no reason why this shouldn't be absoluelty fine???

In cash then fine as once heads up it really is only down to you two.

In tournaments though it's unfair on everyone else still in the tournament. eg, we're nearing the bubble and we're heads up in a pot. i suspect you're on a draw so show my hand to prove to you that I have it and you don't have the odds to call. As a result you fold - but actually, if you'd have called (which you would have done knowing that my range includes bluffs/worsedraws) then you'd have won and the bubble would have burst. Me showing my hand is unfair on everyone else in this spot.

Once the tournament is heads up it's fine - show to your hearts content.

Also, exposing your cards allows other players to react to the cards, influencing the play and some might use this to benefit their position.  In cash, it doesn't matter as each hand exists in isolation and once it's heads-up the other players can't benefit directly from the decision that's made.

[SuuPRlim]

Am I the only one that thinks, in a hand that is heads up, either player should be allowed to reveal any of his cards at any time, still be allowed to make any actions he see's fit and get o penalty afterwards

Seriously I see no reason why this shouldn't be absoluelty fine???

In cash then fine as once heads up it really is only down to you two.

In tournaments though it's unfair on everyone else still in the tournament. eg, we're nearing the bubble and we're heads up in a pot. i suspect you're on a draw so show my hand to prove to you that I have it and you don't have the odds to call. As a result you fold - but actually, if you'd have called (which you would have done knowing that my range includes bluffs/worsedraws) then you'd have won and the bubble would have burst. Me showing my hand is unfair on everyone else in this spot.

Once the tournament is heads up it's fine - show to your hearts content.

Also, exposing your cards allows other players to react to the cards, influencing the play and some might use this to benefit their position.  In cash, it doesn't matter as each hand exists in isolation and once it's heads-up the other players can't benefit directly from the decision that's made.

I get the point, but dont 100% agree that its a problem, If someone feels they can get an advantage by showing there cards, then i dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to show them, as  long as its a HU pot ofc.

[RichEO]

No, as I understand it. The problem being establishing motive is subjective.

Incident at the Irish Poker thing I played last year (or was it the year before, I forget) in Dublin.

Drunk, loud-mouthed player on my table has been berating players and generally been an idiot.  During one hand he's heads up and on the river the other player makes a large bet.  He thinks for a while, and then flips his cards over saying "what do you reckon, should I call?" - obviously trying to get information from the other player (and possibly others round the table).  The floor was called, and after it was established that it wasn't an unintentional act, his hand was declared dead and he was given a 10-minute (or one orbit, can't actually remember now) penalty - which was more than fair imo.

So in this case, if it was at DTD there wouldn't be a different penalty imposed to what has been stated above for an unintentional (or difficult to ascertain) exposure of a player's cards during a hand.  Surely up to the discretion of the TD?

He turns his cards over intentionally. So, can we assume he doesn't believe that his hand will be ruled dead, otherwise he wouldn't have turned it over. Isn't the penalty for turning it over killing his hand?

Or, to look at it another way..

As soon as he turns his cards over in a heads up pot his hand is dead and the hand is therefore over, why the need for any other penalty? Only a need for a penalty if it isn't a heads up situation.

Poor ruling I think.

And the fact he is a loud mouthed drunk shouldn't affect this ruling. He could get a warning and penalty for that independantly of this hand.