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Author Topic: The Best In The Business  (Read 1416163 times)
neeko
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« Reply #8670 on: November 07, 2017, 12:08:56 PM »

It is 11 years since 88% concentration blog was the best around (sadly vanished) however threads on it still exist, http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=14382.0 the third comment sums it up rather well.

Patrick and Moorman are not like this, their money for is grinded out much slower and are more responsible, however maxing your ISA allowance every year, some money in a pension and a couple of small terrace houses in the north on a 50% mortgage would not scrimp on your lifestyle too much and gtee an income for ever.
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #8671 on: November 07, 2017, 12:34:37 PM »

It is 11 years since 88% concentration blog was the best around (sadly vanished) however threads on it still exist, http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=14382.0 the third comment sums it up rather well.

Patrick and Moorman are not like this, their money for is grinded out much slower and are more responsible, however maxing your ISA allowance every year, some money in a pension and a couple of small terrace houses in the north on a 50% mortgage would not scrimp on your lifestyle too much and gtee an income for ever.

Not sure if ISA's and pensions make much sense for these guys but to starting to play Monopoly buying up houses around the £100k mark and renting them out for £500 a month has got to be a good plan. Get an agency to look after them, set them up in a limited company, pay yourself a wage from said company to use up some of that tax free allowance they are not making use of etc...

Having them set up in a company would also make it very easy for them to get turn them back into cash if needed.
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« Reply #8672 on: November 07, 2017, 12:37:02 PM »

You need to think about how to buy the house with borrowed money and keep the bankroll in tact. Makes it a real no-brainer
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« Reply #8673 on: November 07, 2017, 01:03:07 PM »


- Hire an assistant to do the following things:
 

American Express offer a free concierge service with their Platinum and Centurion charge cards. I've found them very good with flight and travel bookings as well as the more esoteric requests. You also get free airport lounge access. Referral link if you decide to apply.

Would mid-/high-end hotels not be more gto than Airbnb for you? You'll have a gym/pool onsite, 24 hour room service providing salads/fresh fruit platters*, housekeeping/laundry services, flexibility in changing arrival and departure dates or cancelling altogether with no financial penalty. Stick with one of the big chains - SPG, Hilton, IHG - and you'll earn enough points for the occasional free stay/holiday trip.






* Yeah, I always choose the burger too.....
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« Reply #8674 on: November 07, 2017, 01:15:19 PM »

Lets say you have £2 million cash in the bank, some of which you invest into other players and some into your own business.

I would cut my bank roll by two thirds – and invest into a house and some long term investment trust to secure your future. (You may have already done this) you might have £6 million so using your surplus cash  building your poker brand does not matter.

When you are in your early twenties and thirties making money then losing money does not matter so much as you can start again
.
In your forties – and if you have family losing everything you have can be very hard to rebuild but is still doable.

In you fifties rebuilding if you lose everything can be a nightmare –

I speak from my own experiences – having made and lost the lot on three occasions – now that I am back to a point where I have built it back up – and I am nearing sixty – I have been lucky – I look back and think why did I not take my own advice and secure my future when I had the opportunity.


Hey man,

Thanks for the post.

I am very very very against property. I just dont see a reason for investing such a huge part of capital into one asset that usually has a bunch of other costs or takes up a lot of time / is difficult to sell potentially and doesn't show huge roi.

I feel like any poker player buying a house very likely isn't GTO unless they just have so much money that they will not have to change their abi even during the most brutal downswings.

Lets say you play live cash and play 200nl and have 1m in the bank then that would make sense to me for sure as the money will just be lying around doing nothing otherwise (unless you find alternative investment opportunities)

I think also the bigger your bankroll is the more likely you will play your A game, will trust your intuition, take shots in bigger games etc.

Maybe somebody can call bollocks on this? My close friends, family and others have always pushed me to buy a house, great long term investment, why rent when you can buy etc, so maybe I'm just being my very stubborn self and fighting against it.

This is a pretty old school blonde argument.

Mikey's saying - you made £1.5m, take a million of it, lock it up somewhere super low risk/low yield and guarantee you financial security for life (or at least heavily secure it)

Patrick's saying - if I have £1.5m working capital and I can make £300-400k per year, if I lock £1m up and have £500k now I can only make £100k per year + the tiny yield from my property investment.

Renting in london costs about £25-30k p/year if you bought a house for £1m from a £1.5m BR and you saved £30k on rent but your earnings reduced by £200k for the year then it's tough to disagree that as a financial  decision it's pretty poor (you could argue that you could rent for 10years (£300k) earn £2m more then buy a house, tough to argue if those #s are correct.

However this is life, the "long run" is non existent, you just have one go at it, taking the £1.5m and being aggro with it could easily lead to having £20m by the time you're 40, also means risk of ruin is much higher, cutting the £1m to £500k means your risk of ruin is thoroughly reduced but you somewhat cap your upside. So much variance in it though, you could not buy a house then go on a brutal downswing, you could buy a house for £1m and then go on a mental upswing and be like you never cut it.

I think there is reasonable arguments to both sides of this discussion but basically it boils down to managing, and much more importantly understanding your own personal risks and appetite for them. If you read about the business history of people like Peter Jones, Duncan Bannatyne, Richard Branson, Alan Sugar etc they all took the same approach and that was to be very aggressive and focus all energy and capital available into growing their businesses, they were focused on maximum growth. Being able to get a mortgage and being in a more fruitful economic period defo affects their decisions differently to a poker player in 2017. 

I think one of the reasons that this advice is so aggressively given out to poker players and gamblers is because (and no disrespect to anyone offering this advice as I've said there is a lot of merit to it) poker and gambling is not given full respect for being a proper business.  I've had it suggested to me that build a gambling bankroll of a significant amount (£250k+) and not just "stopping" and locking up a house would be "stupid" - now I'm not saying it's not solid advice, but to say not following it (effectively cutting your ability to earn) is stupid would basically just indicate that you don't really undersstand the professional nature of gambling.

Learn the risks, understand the risks and then make your own decisions imo. If you want to be aggressive be aggressive but do so in the knowledge that you might lose a lot of money, if you want to be passive be passive but do so in the knowledge that you are sacrificing a lot of growth potential in exchange for the security. Whatever you decide to do, just make solid decisions and don't be wreckless.


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« Reply #8675 on: November 07, 2017, 01:16:06 PM »

Seems to me its horses for courses.

If you take a poker player that binks say a £300k win then to me the idea of locking up some of those winnings in buying a property to live in makes sense, especially as a lot of poker players will just spunk off chunks of their winnings. At least they have some security if they lose the balance.

Patrick though is a completely different animal, looks like he is going to be successful at poker or anything he turns his mind to - so the idea for him to lock up some winnings in property makes little sense. Like others have said, when he's made his £20-30m elsewhere over next 10 years he can always buy a £2-3m pad then. In meantime use the capital on whatever projects are in the pipeline and smash it :-)
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« Reply #8676 on: November 07, 2017, 01:31:08 PM »

Seems to me its horses for courses.

If you take a poker player that binks say a £300k win then to me the idea of locking up some of those winnings in buying a property to live in makes sense, especially as a lot of poker players will just spunk off chunks of their winnings. At least they have some security if they lose the balance.

Patrick though is a completely different animal, looks like he is going to be successful at poker or anything he turns his mind to - so the idea for him to lock up some winnings in property makes little sense. Like others have said, when he's made his £20-30m elsewhere over next 10 years he can always buy a £2-3m pad then. In meantime use the capital on whatever projects are in the pipeline and smash it :-)


If I ever win 300k it will be locked up faster than a 1970's celebrity.
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« Reply #8677 on: November 07, 2017, 01:38:39 PM »

We ended up winning a little bit. We won first week, they won second, third week they decided to focus more on the mixed games (the last week is high buy in mixed games generally) we said sure, last week had the 25k that I came 4/5th in for 250ish but we would have won.

Sorry for the irkage, genuinely didn't knew you guys were even following, maybe the marketing actually is gto after all!

Yeh it's cool, I wasn't even following it, just noticed you make a big deal out of these challenges / bets but the results always seem to get brushed under the carpet which seems odd- like someone mentioned, everyone will just assume you've lost and don't want to talk about it!
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EvilPie
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« Reply #8678 on: November 07, 2017, 01:59:05 PM »

I think you're mad to even consider doing anything differently to exactly what you're doing now.

Unless you have good reason to think that something's going to change then stick to earning high 6 figures (or whatever it may be) for a few years then re-assess.

I certainly wouldn't be taking any risks and from what I can see if you keep playing the tournaments you're playing and staking the people you're staking then you'll do pretty damn good. Sure you're never going to be rich enough to buy a yacht but does that matter?

I really don't see how investing in property is any less risky that doing exactly what's made you a mint for the last few years. Sure if you'd just had one lucky bink then invest it before you spunk it but you clearly aren't a one hit wonder when it comes to poker so that's not going to happen.


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« Reply #8679 on: November 07, 2017, 02:10:33 PM »

We ended up winning a little bit. We won first week, they won second, third week they decided to focus more on the mixed games (the last week is high buy in mixed games generally) we said sure, last week had the 25k that I came 4/5th in for 250ish but we would have won.

Sorry for the irkage, genuinely didn't knew you guys were even following, maybe the marketing actually is gto after all!

Yeh it's cool, I wasn't even following it, just noticed you make a big deal out of these challenges / bets but the results always seem to get brushed under the carpet which seems odd- like someone mentioned, everyone will just assume you've lost and don't want to talk about it!

Yeah fair these series just completely insane I basically don't sleep for 3 weeks either I'm playing 20 hours a day or railing a horse etc it's complete shit show. Sounds fun and makes sense on day 1 but by day 20'we zombies then forget about it after.

We did 5 bets over last couple years and won 3 lost 2.

Better to update after for sure though
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« Reply #8680 on: November 07, 2017, 02:59:46 PM »



2018 Medium Term


- In December play a football match and it be completely obvious that I am the fittest on the pitch (currently bottom 10% for sure)


I went to play in Richmond last week, before we started ball got passed over to me, my first touch was probably 50 yard half volley it bounced accurately on the guys foot 50 yards away and it felt so good. Playing football well is a really great feeling, just like playing poker well, I get a lot of satisfaction over it. However 30 minutes later after that first warm up pass, I was ****ed, knew I couldn't go up/down as much as I would have been able to previously and that is very frustrating.

When I was 15/16 I was regional champion in cross country, 1500m, 3000m etc, I really was very fit, I was running against guys 1 foot taller than me lol, but I kind of prided myself on being the fittest guy in every football team I played it. It's kind of sad that now I will be the least fit guy by a long way if I join anything close to a serious football team. This may be the hardest goal! Will keep updated from every football game, maybe try and get somebody to come film some games etc if people would like that?

This is the one that I'd not worry about too much. There's only so many hours in a day and if you want to be the best in the poker business you're going to struggle to be the best in the fittest on a football field business as well.

Perhaps amend it from being "the fittest on the pitch" to being "amongst the fittest on the pitch". It's only a tweak but it gives you a bit of leniency if you need it.

If the level of play is anywhere near what you're suggesting then some of these guys are going to be putting in an insane amount of effort that you just won't be able to match without sacrificing your other work.


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« Reply #8681 on: November 07, 2017, 06:03:57 PM »

#5 Gavin Griffin. Estimated losses: $5 million. ...
#4 Gus Hansen. Estimated losses: $18 million. ...
#3 Scotty Nguyen. Estimated losses: $20 millions. ...
#2 Erick Lindgren. Estimated losses: $25 millions. ...
#1 Stu Ungar. Estimated losses: $30 millions.

There are more Gus Hansen's than there are Doyle Brunson's
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« Reply #8682 on: November 08, 2017, 09:40:48 AM »

#5 Gavin Griffin. Estimated losses: $5 million. ...
#4 Gus Hansen. Estimated losses: $18 million. ...
#3 Scotty Nguyen. Estimated losses: $20 millions. ...
#2 Erick Lindgren. Estimated losses: $25 millions. ...
#1 Stu Ungar. Estimated losses: $30 millions.

There are more Gus Hansen's than there are Doyle Brunson's

You're making a good point, and I'm certainly acknowledging it as hugely valid, it's just a question of context, these guys you're using as examples here are kind of out of context. Scotty lost his money in the pits (where he's obviously a huge dog), Erick lost his money at sports betting & fantasy sports (where he was renowned for being a massive fish) and Stu Ungar was basically just a massive degenerate who happened to be a talented poker player. Gus Hansen is famous for big losses at online poker playing the very best players in the world at their specialist games (where he was obviously a big dog) but he is still (by all accounts) hugely wealthy so he didn't gamble all his money away like others on the list. TJ Cloutier an ominous exclusion from this list, rumoured to have lost a decent 8figure chunk playing dice.

In Patrick's situation though, he is running a business which has been successful so far, and he's managing a poker bankroll sensibly. If he was betting £15k a game sports, taking drugs, gambling in the pits etc then 100% everyone would be sayin jesus christ mate get 80% of that money locked away somewhere super safe and run a small poker bankroll.

Patricks biggest threats to his wealth currently (I would imagine) is just life's bad luck, someone from his stable stealing a huge amount, big downswing for him big downswing for the stable, bad investments etc I think the risks of him doing a shitload of coke and blowing $1m in the pits are close to 0%.
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« Reply #8683 on: November 08, 2017, 10:39:33 AM »

Great to see some bitb hoody wearing kids at wsope Smiley
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« Reply #8684 on: November 08, 2017, 10:41:51 AM »

In Patrick's situation though, he is running a business which has been successful so far, and he's managing a poker bankroll sensibly. If he was betting £15k a game sports, taking drugs, gambling in the pits etc then 100% he would be having a lot more fun.

FYP

Not sure why everyone is replying as if the two things are exclusive, from everything I have read on here it would seem that being best in the business has provided Peeleeno with a bankroll that far exceeds his poker requirements?

If this is the case then surely there is no issue diversifying into a few other things that could generate a different source of income?

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