The worst ruling I have ever seen and it's me who has to be the victim

[dik9]

Many Thanks Skolsuper, I am sure every dealer regardless of where they work would respond much better to this kind of feedback rather than being called skanks from an estate with no brains.

Tips me 'at guv

[Woodsey]

Many Thanks Skolsuper, I am sure every dealer regardless of where they work would respond much better to this kind of feedback rather than being called skanks from an estate with no brains.

Tips me 'at guv

You have to remember that most poker players spend most of the time losing, evening the better winning ones in tournaments. That naturally turns many of them to whining bastards that will moan about stuff that isn't that important because they have just done their bollocks. I'm not necessarily talking about this thread. but just generally. I think we all realise that 90% of dealers do a great job 98% of the time. Who of us in our jobs doesn't make mistakes from time to time? Nobody.............

[RED-DOG]

Personally I think the dealers at DTD and in most places I've played are excellent. Recently there was a thread posted asking if people had any common criticisms of dealers. Obviously there are some little niggles and pet hates I might have posted but I didn't want to post anything negative because I think the dealers on whole do a great job and I am constantly impressed by the pride they take in their work. Having worked in a supermarket and in the public sector I've seen people who take no pride in their work and hate their relatively easy jobs/lives as a result, so it's nice to see.

Basically, just wanted to add a bit of positive feedback. I'm pretty sure most people who come through the doors feel the same way but because standards are so high at DTD people don't feel the need to comment when things are good.

Great post!

We take DTD for granted, but my God, we'd miss it if it were gone.

[tikay]

Personally I think the dealers at DTD and in most places I've played are excellent. Recently there was a thread posted asking if people had any common criticisms of dealers. Obviously there are some little niggles and pet hates I might have posted but I didn't want to post anything negative because I think the dealers on whole do a great job and I am constantly impressed by the pride they take in their work. Having worked in a supermarket and in the public sector I've seen people who take no pride in their work and hate their relatively easy jobs/lives as a result, so it's nice to see.

Basically, just wanted to add a bit of positive feedback. I'm pretty sure most people who come through the doors feel the same way but because standards are so high at DTD people don't feel the need to comment when things are good.

Great post!

We take DTD for granted, but my God, we'd miss it if it were gone.

So would blonde.

[kinboshi]

Girgy, I do understand where you are coming from. But please tell me that you can understand my point. I would hate for a dealer to do this in a comp I was playing and would immediately inform the TD. When we have to read about this sort of thing on a forum (especially when it refers to a comp that we were running) it is rather infuriating.

I can completely understand a forums population discussing rules, it's par for the course ....... we probably get around 20 floor calls a comp, so it makes sense that sometimes a decision may not sit well. But when you are talking about the behavior of our dealers, it would be much more productive to tell us directly. Then discuss on a forum about the poor standard etc. At least we can reply with a pro active response, or we can be slagged off for doing nothing. But when we find out something like this on days when the cardroom is closed, how would you want us to deal with it?

And whilst we are talking about the lack of standards, when dealers read things like this

youre comparing apples and pears george. Vegas attracts smart dealers who mostly play the game, dtd attracts mostly local semi attractive skanks from the estate that dont have a brain, obv there gonna miss loads of stuff, whose gonna want to deal in front of leering blokes and listen to "four king ten" haha everynight for close to min wage.

Do you think that comments like this would help them aspire to high standards?

There's always an opportunity during the breaks to have a quiet word with the TD about a dealer.  I've had to do it once before at DTD and spoke to Tom who was TDing at the time.  I can't even remember now what the dealer was doing, but I do remember saying to Tom that the reason it stood out so much is because the standard is usually so high. 

As long as people complain constructively (and don't launch ridiculous attacks on the dealers in general) then it's good for both the players and the club (including the dealers).  I suppose it's like going to a good restaurant and getting a meal that's fantastic but maybe the wine glasses are dirty.  You'd mention this to the staff and they'd rectify the problem.  At a crappy restaurant you might not bother as it's probably only a small thing amongst all the others that aren't right (and you might worry about them spitting in your food).

[doubleup]

youre comparing apples and pears george. Vegas attracts smart dealers who mostly play the game, dtd attracts mostly local semi attractive skanks from the estate that dont have a brain, obv there gonna miss loads of stuff, whose gonna want to deal in front of leering blokes and listen to "four king ten" haha everynight for close to min wage.

Do you think that comments like this would help them aspire to high standards?

Be fair mate, he did call them "semi-attractive".

[jackinbeat]

Will quote the rule when I get home. TDA prob don't cover it explicitly - they're usually tournament specific rules. Just refer to rrs for other rules. The two sets complement each other without any major contradictions.

For those saying there should be standardised rules... There are. TDA/RR. Just tell grosvenor etc to actually follow them.

I would love it if all players read both these sets of rules and kept up to date with changes/clarifications. There's no need for anything else to be written, these are the standard and the rules do the job very well, apllication of those rules is of course down to the quality of TD.

[kinboshi]

Will quote the rule when I get home. TDA prob don't cover it explicitly - they're usually tournament specific rules. Just refer to rrs for other rules. The two sets complement each other without any major contradictions.

For those saying there should be standardised rules... There are. TDA/RR. Just tell grosvenor etc to actually follow them.

I would love it if all players read both these sets of rules and kept up to date with changes/clarifications. There's no need for anything else to be written, these are the standard and the rules do the job very well, apllication of those rules is of course down to the quality of TD.

But not every venue follows these rules, and there are also different interpretations of the rules at different venues - and often at the same venues by different members of staff.

[dik9]

Further to the meeting yesterday, it has been agreed by all that the rule we use at the moment does not serve it's purpose very well. We all agreed that the rule needs changing in line with major cardrooms across the world. This will be done ASAP!

At the moment RR is

12. To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act.

However something does not sit comfortable with a few of us regarding this rule, and it would be great if we can have some feedback on this:
If a player is facing a bet and there are 3 or more actions after him/her, and then the player calls "time" he has too much information to be considered fair, even if his action is made passive he still may be priced in. The fact that he hasn't noticed 3 people put money into a pot (as this will never be instant) it is still the players responsibility to follow the action

Caro and Cookes rule are more comprehensive and should eliminate a possible stroke:

8.02. ACTING PROMPTLY.
A player is entitled to a reasonable time to think about his action, but should in no other way slow the game down. If a player wishes to take time to act he must stop the action by calling “Time.” Failure to stop the action before there has been substantial action behind a player may cause the player to lose his right to act. If the player is facing a bet when he has lost the right to act he shall be deemed to have folded, and his hand is dead. If he is not facing a bet when he has lost the right to act he will be deemed to have checked. A player does not forfeit his right to act if any player in front of him has not yet acted, so that the failure of another to act properly in turn shall not cause another player to lose his right of action, even if there is substantial action behind the second player who has not yet acted. All action made behind a player who has not acted shall be binding, so long as the action by the delaying player or any other intervening player does not change the action which the person acting behind him is facing.

Please discuss

Can we apologize to Sack it off for being at the end of the original ruling and thank him for bringing this to light. FWIW every TD would have given the same ruling as that was our rule at the time and would have been consistent, but we all realize that our rule was not being used for the intention that it was made. Thank You.

[The Camel]

Would be nice to give Sack it Off a free entry to the next £300 tournament as way of apology.

[dik9]

Would be nice to give Sack it Off a free entry to the next £300 tournament as way of apology.

Unfortunately that was our rule at the time Keith. Whether it be right or wrong.

[dik9]

Another point on the Agenda was the standard of dealing including but not exclusive Girgy's legitimate complaint of dealers looking at mucked cards. I had pm'd Girgy regarding this and unfortunately he didn't remember the dealer in question.

Some notices will be in the staffroom very shortly (they may be there now), once everyone has read them we will be going down the disciplinary route if dealers do not abide by them. I hope this will lead to a better and consistent standard of dealing by all.

Many Thanks for raising the point, keep them coming if needed.

[pleno1]

dtd is the nts. wp dik9.

[dik9]

wp dik9.

It's not me mate it's the team but thank you

[Claw75]

Another point on the Agenda was the standard of dealing including but not exclusive Girgy's legitimate complaint of dealers looking at mucked cards. I had pm'd Girgy regarding this and unfortunately he didn't remember the dealer in question.

Some notices will be in the staffroom very shortly (they may be there now), once everyone has read them we will be going down the disciplinary route if dealers do not abide by them. I hope this will lead to a better and consistent standard of dealing by all.

Many Thanks for raising the point, keep them coming if needed.

As it's been raised....

I came up a few months ago to play one of the super 50 events.  I took down a pot on the turn with two pair and the guy I was in the pot with folded top pair, top kicker face up.  Totally unprompted, the dealer continued to deal out the river 'just to see'.  I noticed after reading the DTD rules prompted by this thread that rabbit hunting is forbidden.  I've never seen it happen before or since, but don't visit very often.  None of the other players at the table batted an eyelid though, which made me suspect it wasn't that unusual an occurrence, but had the dealer asked if anyone minded i would have objected.

And well played for reconsidering the rule that prompted this thread