Thomas kremser EPT London dealing staff

[GreekStein]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

[kinboshi]

So may be the answer is rather having a quantity of £6 an hour wage dealers but having a quality of £10 an hour dealers would be better ? Dony know why everywhere has to have dealers for min buy in toruneys or cash games as back in the day all small buy ins were self dealt with the juice been minimal compared to todays juice ! I know a splayers we like dealers but if you can pay half the rake or half the reg fee surely long term its +ev ?

Self-deal is terrible.  Would rather pay more juice or not play at all than self-deal.

[Skgv]

So may be the answer is rather having a quantity of £6 an hour wage dealers but having a quality of £10 an hour dealers would be better ? Dony know why everywhere has to have dealers for min buy in toruneys or cash games as back in the day all small buy ins were self dealt with the juice been minimal compared to todays juice ! I know a splayers we like dealers but if you can pay half the rake or half the reg fee surely long term its +ev ?

Self-deal is terrible.  Would rather pay more juice or not play at all than self-deal.

yeah after a night on piss wt  normal people on £6 an hour i would tell you 2 grow up  an show respect for working class people u JOCKEY as my good m8 SIMON NOWAB would say !

[GreekStein]

So may be the answer is rather having a quantity of £6 an hour wage dealers but having a quality of £10 an hour dealers would be better ? Dony know why everywhere has to have dealers for min buy in toruneys or cash games as back in the day all small buy ins were self dealt with the juice been minimal compared to todays juice ! I know a splayers we like dealers but if you can pay half the rake or half the reg fee surely long term its +ev ?

Self-deal is terrible.  Would rather pay more juice or not play at all than self-deal.

yeah after a night on piss wt  normal people on £6 an hour i would tell you 2 grow up  an show respect for working class people u JOCKEY as my good m8 SIMON NOWAB would say !

where is chubbs? not seen him in ages

[77dave]

In some Vegas casinos the numbers of hands dealt per down are recorded and the dealers that deal the most hands per down get the better shifts and better tables in a rotation to deal.

[gouty]

in the uk casinos/dtd are paying the govt. between 30% and 50% duty on poker rake due to a cock up as the quango involved deemed rake the same as GP

until that is sorted out poker cant be +ev for any casino surely?

our local game at gala is now raked 10% cap £6 now thats ok for £1/2/4 omaha but they have 2 tables of 25p/50p NLHE going too. now that is a hard game to beat.

[relaedgc]

You can teach any person to deal NLH in a day or two. That's not something I'd dispute and thus I wouldn't consider it a "skilled" profession. The same thing does not apply to say, an electrician, a plumber or to use an extreme - a doctor.

That said, there's a varying degree of competence between dealers and even the exceptional are not going to earn any more than £10 working outside of London -- at least not on a full time contract for a casino. While unfortunate, I'm sure, it's simply not practical in a business sense given that poker seems barely profitable as it stands with the introduction of this recent tax.

The EPT dealers, on the other hand, work what? One event per month? So the amount they're paid per hour needs to be sufficient to make it a viable occupation given the "off time" between events. I'd also suspect their position is less secure than someone who is contracted full time and thus this also needs to be taken into consideration. I'd love to do it if I knew I would be handed a contract for say, twelve months, after passing the sufficient reviews and table tests but I'd not risk a secure job on the chance (however confident I might feel in my own ability) that I might be dropped after a single event.

From my own opinion as someone who has been involved with poker from the other side of the tables, I think the money is decent given the work required. The lifestyle is likely the biggest detriment to the long term retention of such staff -- people with a family aren't going to be able to manage the flexibility and the hours required without some sacrifices that most others aren't forced into taking. You also need to consider that it's a very limited avenue in terms of progression and so this factors in to people moving off to work in a profession with clear and structured progression that I just can't see being possible in the poker world or even the casino world.

[relaedgc]

In some Vegas casinos the numbers of hands dealt per down are recorded and the dealers that deal the most hands per down get the better shifts and better tables in a rotation to deal.

While a reasonable measure of gauging the speed and efficiency of a dealer -- you have to take into consideration that every hand is, if not unique, as close as to. Am I to be penalized for the "dwelling up" of players and other such interruptions that are common place in a game?

[Jon MW]

In some Vegas casinos the numbers of hands dealt per down are recorded and the dealers that deal the most hands per down get the better shifts and better tables in a rotation to deal.

While a reasonable measure of gauging the speed and efficiency of a dealer -- you have to take into consideration that every hand is, if not unique, as close as to. Am I to be penalized for the "dwelling up" of players and other such interruptions that are common place in a game?

That's what I thought when I first read it, but if it were averaged over a year for example I would have thought this would be a pretty good measure for performance related pay. You'd have to be pretty unlucky to 'always' have the slow tables.

[poonjoe]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

Being a cleaner,cleaning rooms quick enough to a high standard is a skilled job,and a tough one to.When I was a kitchen porter earning £5ph I was happy to be working and earning money.I've only ever had a problem with dealers who are rude never on how good they're at dealing as most places I've played they've been decent enough.If they feel underpaid they have an option,do something else.BTW £8ph in the north east is probably seen very differnetly to £8ph down south.

Also vey true about the north an south divide! An the point about rudeness from dealers is very common on where they should draw the line in terms of repsecting the players! i know it goes both ways has as players we are gultiy too, but it happens that maybe we get to friendly with dealers which can lead to the respect loss during the game an the proffesionlism suffers.........

Yeh its a shame that non-professionalism happens a lot

[jackinbeat]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

[GreekStein]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Not a 'very skilled job'. Wouldn't take years at all.

[Jon MW]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

[jackinbeat]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Not a 'very skilled job'. Wouldn't take years at all.

sigh

[jackinbeat]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!