Thomas kremser EPT London dealing staff

[GreekStein]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

Probably is worth you listing these skills needed because I reckon that 80%+ of the UK population have them and they aren't particularly hard.

Also, no one is disrespecting the job dealers do, but your view of what's required of a dealer is somewhat skewed.

[mondatoo]

Are you a dealer Jackinbeat ?

When I say it's not a very skilled job I'd also say a lot of jobs are not very skilled jobs,I would say an Accountant isn't a very skilled job I'd also say a footballer isn't a very skilled job;as it doesn't take a lot of different qualities to be good at these jobs.I would say a Surgoen is a very skilled job.

[jackinbeat]

Are you a dealer Jackinbeat ?

When I say it's not a very skilled job I'd also say a lot of jobs are not very skilled jobs,I would say an Accountant isn't a very skilled job I'd also say a footballer isn't a very skilled job;as it doesn't take a lot of different qualities to be good at these jobs.I would say a Surgoen is a very skilled job.

hmmm, well maybe we are saying the same thing, some footballers are obv skilled, and i never said 'very' skilled that was you, or Greekstein. What I am saying is some dealers work for years to reach the top of their profession, and clearly are more skilled that others, so it's a job you can train for years to become alot more skilled than someone who just picks up and sets a deck of cards, as someone else said.

Obv a surgeon is more than very skilled, and i'm not comparing dealers to a surgeon, more saying that if you look at the EPT staff, they have all trained for years to reach the top of their profession, and are highly skilled dealers, kinda feels like you are looking for a reason to standardise all dealers when clearly there is a big difference is the skills of some compared to others.

I'm a dj and music producer btw

[jackinbeat]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

Probably is worth you listing these skills needed because I reckon that 80%+ of the UK population have them and they aren't particularly hard.

Also, no one is disrespecting the job dealers do, but your view of what's required of a dealer is somewhat skewed.

I might do, as we are currently working towards a dealer qualification, with different levels, each level having it's own level of skill needed. Will be a while though, but i'm happy to share that and would be very open to all constructive criticism of the levels and skills required.

How about you start it off with what you see as the skills 80% of us already possess?

[GreekStein]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

Probably is worth you listing these skills needed because I reckon that 80%+ of the UK population have them and they aren't particularly hard.

Also, no one is disrespecting the job dealers do, but your view of what's required of a dealer is somewhat skewed.

I might do, as we are currently working towards a dealer qualification, with different levels, each level having it's own level of skill needed. Will be a while though, but i'm happy to share that and would be very open to all constructive criticism of the levels and skills required.

How about you start it off with what you see as the skills 80% of us already possess?

- Ability to concentrate
- Use of hands
- Basic maths ability.

[Jon MW]

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

I am friendly with several people who are dealers but a 'very skilled job' it is NOT.

Have a look at the Austrians, some American and a few of the top English dealers before you make sweeping statements. Dealing 7 card stud the way they do, and PLO with perfect pots etc,  they def would be counted as very skilled. I get your point, but there's a big difference between a standard casino dealer and a very skilled prof, it takes years of practice and dedication to get near them!

Almost every job has a skill or two involved - doesn't make it a skilled job let alone a 'very' skilled one.

Reading some of the opinions and attitudes here it''s clear to see why most Uk players will have to put up weith complainging about monkey dealers for years to come, until you sort out your attitudes and respect the job a good dealer does, and the skills involved with doing that job well you'll just have to keep moaning.

Not worth me listing the qualities and skills needed to be a top dealer, as it's cear some here just don't have the depth of knowledge or understanding to respect that, a very sorry state of affairs imho!

Probably is worth you listing these skills needed because I reckon that 80%+ of the UK population have them and they aren't particularly hard.

Also, no one is disrespecting the job dealers do, but your view of what's required of a dealer is somewhat skewed.

I might do, as we are currently working towards a dealer qualification, with different levels, each level having it's own level of skill needed. Will be a while though, but i'm happy to share that and would be very open to all constructive criticism of the levels and skills required.

How about you start it off with what you see as the skills 80% of us already possess?

- Ability to concentrate
- Use of hands
- Basic maths ability.

Plus customer service skills

essentially the same skills good shop assistants will have with a bit of extra nimbleness and a bit harder arithmetic - that's why before I suggested the pay for dealers would appropriately be on the same level of bank clerks.

[byronkincaid]

Are you a dealer Jackinbeat ?

When I say it's not a very skilled job I'd also say a lot of jobs are not very skilled jobs,I would say an Accountant isn't a very skilled job I'd also say a footballer isn't a very skilled job;as it doesn't take a lot of different qualities to be good at these jobs.I would say a Surgoen is a very skilled job.

hmmm, well maybe we are saying the same thing, some footballers are obv skilled, and i never said 'very' skilled that was you, or Greekstein. What I am saying is some dealers work for years to reach the top of their profession, and clearly are more skilled that others, so it's a job you can train for years to become alot more skilled than someone who just picks up and sets a deck of cards, as someone else said.

Obv a surgeon is more than very skilled, and i'm not comparing dealers to a surgeon, more saying that if you look at the EPT staff, they have all trained for years to reach the top of their profession, and are highly skilled dealers, kinda feels like you are looking for a reason to standardise all dealers when clearly there is a big difference is the skills of some compared to others.

I'm a dj and music producer btw

what software do you use to produce music? it's something i have been meaning to get into for ages, just looks so complicated tho

i'm told customer facing bank staff are under a lot of pressure to meet sales targets these days, maybe poker dealers should get paid a bonus to persuade the players to play on the fruit machines or roulette table instead

[RED-DOG]

This is what I said last time we had a tipping debate. For the most part. it's still true.

My income (Such as it is) comes from poker, ergo, at the end of the week, my wage will be light by the amount I tip.

If I were to tip the dealers, say, £1-2 per pot, maybe 10 pots per night, x 5 nights per week, that's approx £75pw.

Add to this the £25 or so that I give to the vallets, (I can't bring myself not to tip the vallets) and that brings it up to £100pw. (Or 5k a year)

I could have a new car every three years for that price.

I have a daughter who works 40+ hours pw for minimum wage, and another who can't find a job at the moment. It's hard for me to give money to outsiders instead of them.

I do tip dealers occasionally, but certainly not every pot. I simply can't afford to.

[jackinbeat]

This is what I said last time we had a tipping debate. For the most part. it's still true.

My income (Such as it is) comes from poker, ergo, at the end of the week, my wage will be light by the amount I tip.

If I were to tip the dealers, say, £1-2 per pot, maybe 10 pots per night, x 5 nights per week, that's approx £75pw.

Add to this the £25 or so that I give to the vallets, (I can't bring myself not to tip the vallets) and that brings it up to £100pw. (Or 5k a year)

I could have a new car every three years for that price.

I have a daughter who works 40+ hours pw for minimum wage, and another who can't find a job at the moment. It's hard for me to give money to outsiders instead of them.

I do tip dealers occasionally, but certainly not every pot. I simply can't afford to.

This isn't a tipping debate, it's about the difference between a basic casino dealer and a top level poker dealer as far as i know.

[Jon MW]

This is what I said last time we had a tipping debate. For the most part. it's still true.

My income (Such as it is) comes from poker, ergo, at the end of the week, my wage will be light by the amount I tip.

If I were to tip the dealers, say, £1-2 per pot, maybe 10 pots per night, x 5 nights per week, that's approx £75pw.

Add to this the £25 or so that I give to the vallets, (I can't bring myself not to tip the vallets) and that brings it up to £100pw. (Or 5k a year)

I could have a new car every three years for that price.

I have a daughter who works 40+ hours pw for minimum wage, and another who can't find a job at the moment. It's hard for me to give money to outsiders instead of them.

I do tip dealers occasionally, but certainly not every pot. I simply can't afford to.

This isn't a tipping debate, it's about the difference between a basic casino dealer and a top level poker dealer as far as i know.

Over 4 pages it seems to me more like about how much dealers are 'worth', some people early on suggested that you get better dealers when people start tipping the good ones more often. I don't see how tipping should ever be considered part of a pay package, I think tipping should be a bonus extra on top of expected income and higher ability and experience should be rewarded with performance related pay rises.

But Red definitely isn't the first person to bring tipping into the debate

[mondatoo]

This is what I said last time we had a tipping debate. For the most part. it's still true.

My income (Such as it is) comes from poker, ergo, at the end of the week, my wage will be light by the amount I tip.

If I were to tip the dealers, say, £1-2 per pot, maybe 10 pots per night, x 5 nights per week, that's approx £75pw.

Add to this the £25 or so that I give to the vallets, (I can't bring myself not to tip the vallets) and that brings it up to £100pw. (Or 5k a year)

I could have a new car every three years for that price.

I have a daughter who works 40+ hours pw for minimum wage, and another who can't find a job at the moment. It's hard for me to give money to outsiders instead of them.

I do tip dealers occasionally, but certainly not every pot. I simply can't afford to.

This isn't a tipping debate, it's about the difference between a basic casino dealer and a top level poker dealer as far as i know.

Is there a difference between the skill level required and the effort put in to be better at something ?

[StuartHopkin]

Are you a dealer Jackinbeat ?

When I say it's not a very skilled job I'd also say a lot of jobs are not very skilled jobs,I would say an Accountant isn't a very skilled job I'd also say a footballer isn't a very skilled job;as it doesn't take a lot of different qualities to be good at these jobs.I would say a Surgoen is a very skilled job.

Crazy post imo Ray, the number of skills required makes no difference.

[StuartHopkin]

This is what I said last time we had a tipping debate. For the most part. it's still true.

My income (Such as it is) comes from poker, ergo, at the end of the week, my wage will be light by the amount I tip.

If I were to tip the dealers, say, £1-2 per pot, maybe 10 pots per night, x 5 nights per week, that's approx £75pw.

Add to this the £25 or so that I give to the vallets, (I can't bring myself not to tip the vallets) and that brings it up to £100pw. (Or 5k a year)

I could have a new car every three years for that price.

I have a daughter who works 40+ hours pw for minimum wage, and another who can't find a job at the moment. It's hard for me to give money to outsiders instead of them.

I do tip dealers occasionally, but certainly not every pot. I simply can't afford to.

This isn't a tipping debate, it's about the difference between a basic casino dealer and a top level poker dealer as far as i know.

Is there a difference between the skill level required and the effort put in to be better at something ?

A huge difference as one is limited by capability

[StuartHopkin]

Jackinbeat, what wage would a dealer to reach the top of your qualification scheme deserve in wages in your opinion?

[mondatoo]

GTFO this thread you clown,I was ticking along ok with my crazyness til you outed me.