Trips on flushing board - fast or slow?

[R8APK]

GUKPT Club Championship Walsall - £200 buy in

10k stack, 30 mins

Villian 16k
Hero 10k

Not really tangled with Villain before. Only read looks solid player, hasn't shown down any rubbish or got caught. Made looked like squeeze play and floated several times ( or so it looked).

Hero not shown a hand, have 3 bet twice in last two orbits  (once against villian) and have continue bet a raise 3/4 hands played so far (exception was against 3 callers).

Blinds 100/200 25 Ante, 10 handed.

Villian makes it 600 in Hijack, Hero OTB makes it 1950 with two red kings.

Flop....

Villian checks

what now?     

[Eso Kral]

FWIW i think ur RR is to big am happier around 1550-1600, as played am definately leading this for 2500 and obv gonna call a shove  but set up pot for turn shove on non club turn if club is on turn i would review situation dependant on how villain plays the turn.

[EvilPie]

3 bet size isn't too bad.

We've maybe got a rep as 3 betting too often so we could induce a spaz shove.

We don't really want to give set mining odds if stacks let us avoid it and oppo isn't going to be scared off by an extra few hundred.

Now we continue with our previous line and bet about 3/4 pot to induce a shove from eejit with  in his hand. 2600 should do it to give the illusion of some FE.

One more important thing. You have a set, not trips. A set is loads better.

[R8APK]

Thanks Gents.

Is checking the flop horrible?

Couldn't put villian on AcX (unless AK - unlikely with 3 kings out) - calling my pre flop raise OOP.

Checking could induce villain bet on turn as he would expect me to bet flop with AK, KK, AA.

If turn brings club - he must fear as surely he can't have it in his range - so can rep it. Also obv could fill up on river.

Anyone checking flop?

 

[EvilPie]

If I've 3 bet pre and every time previously I've c bet I'm not checking anything even the nuts.

[doubleup]

I'm going to look at my cards to see if I have a club before I bet 

[Eso Kral]

Thanks Gents.

Is checking the flop horrible?

Couldn't put villian on AcX (unless AK - unlikely with 3 kings out) - calling my pre flop raise OOP.

Checking could induce villain bet on turn as he would expect me to bet flop with AK, KK, AA.

If turn brings club - he must fear as surely he can't have it in his range - so can rep it. Also obv could fill up on river.

Anyone checking flop?

 

am never checking the flop

[pleno1]

bet smallish imo, like 1750-2250

[skolsuper]

3bet smaller. Use the raise to size the 3bet, so 3x people who 3x it, 2.5x people who 2.5x it, and double the raise for people who minraise (i.e. go to 9x, 6.25x and 4x respectively. add on 25 or 50 every once in a while for aesthetic value). So here I would 3bet to 1800. Never ever ever checking the flop because I don't think it induces anything and there are many bad turn cards that kill our hand or our action, namely all the green ones. Bet 1500.

[MC]

Use the raise to size the 3bet, so 3x people who 3x it, 2.5x people who 2.5x it, and double the raise for people who minraise

May I enquire as to your reasoning behind this?

[EvilPie]

Thanks Gents.

Is checking the flop horrible?

Couldn't put villian on AcX (unless AK - unlikely with 3 kings out) - calling my pre flop raise OOP.

Checking could induce villain bet on turn as he would expect me to bet flop with AK, KK, AA.

If turn brings club - he must fear as surely he can't have it in his range - so can rep it. Also obv could fill up on river.

Anyone checking flop?

 

As Keys said this is what we call an action killer.

If he happens to have 2 pair or a worse set then you aren't getting his stack now.

You only get action on a club turn if you're beat so the flop is the time to get it in if possible.

Also if the tunr comes a club will it not worry you at all? What if he jams the club turn? You folding?

[skolsuper]

Use the raise to size the 3bet, so 3x people who 3x it, 2.5x people who 2.5x it, and double the raise for people who minraise

May I enquire as to your reasoning behind this?

You may.

IMO people think within their own frame of reference, so their open size tells you a lot about how likely they are to fold when getting certain odds. People who 3x do so because they don't expect a smaller raise to get many folds from their opponents, probably because they often call raises themselves. People who minraise probably think it's a mistake to call a minraise with most hands and are doing it to induce this mistake from their opponents. If they think it's a mistake you can be reasonably sure that they will mostly fold to even very small raises. So against the minraiser I will 3bet small to make my bluffs cheaper, against the 3x-er a small raise won't get folds, so I will have to raise larger. When a 3bet is bigger it will be a profitable bluff less often so obviously it is important to adjust your ranges to bluff less often with the bigger 3bet, which conveniently means you will be bluffing more often against the people more likely to fold and mostly value betting against the people who will call.

[DMorgan]

3betting smaller, say 1750 and definitely betting this flop, 2600ish as played with your sizing pre

[EvilPie]

Use the raise to size the 3bet, so 3x people who 3x it, 2.5x people who 2.5x it, and double the raise for people who minraise

May I enquire as to your reasoning behind this?

You may.

IMO people think within their own frame of reference, so their open size tells you a lot about how likely they are to fold when getting certain odds. People who 3x do so because they don't expect a smaller raise to get many folds from their opponents, probably because they often call raises themselves. People who minraise probably think it's a mistake to call a minraise with most hands and are doing it to induce this mistake from their opponents. If they think it's a mistake you can be reasonably sure that they will mostly fold to even very small raises. So against the minraiser I will 3bet small to make my bluffs cheaper, against the 3x-er a small raise won't get folds, so I will have to raise larger. When a 3bet is bigger it will be a profitable bluff less often so obviously it is important to adjust your ranges to bluff less often with the bigger 3bet, which conveniently means you will be bluffing more often against the people more likely to fold and mostly value betting against the people who will call.

You make any adjustments to this if you're 3 betting oop from the blinds?

[skolsuper]

Use the raise to size the 3bet, so 3x people who 3x it, 2.5x people who 2.5x it, and double the raise for people who minraise

May I enquire as to your reasoning behind this?

You may.

IMO people think within their own frame of reference, so their open size tells you a lot about how likely they are to fold when getting certain odds. People who 3x do so because they don't expect a smaller raise to get many folds from their opponents, probably because they often call raises themselves. People who minraise probably think it's a mistake to call a minraise with most hands and are doing it to induce this mistake from their opponents. If they think it's a mistake you can be reasonably sure that they will mostly fold to even very small raises. So against the minraiser I will 3bet small to make my bluffs cheaper, against the 3x-er a small raise won't get folds, so I will have to raise larger. When a 3bet is bigger it will be a profitable bluff less often so obviously it is important to adjust your ranges to bluff less often with the bigger 3bet, which conveniently means you will be bluffing more often against the people more likely to fold and mostly value betting against the people who will call.

You make any adjustments to this if you're 3 betting oop from the blinds?

Yes, have to adjust to each opponent individually as people's tendencies vary greatly in that situation, and effective stack size changes things more too I think. Generally go to around the pot vs an unknown with deep effective stacks. Also I generally have it.