Playing for stacks v AAxx

[ACE2M]

In PLO whats your minimum requirement on the flop to play for stacks in a 4 bet pot against assumed AAxx  ?

[maldini32]

pr and gutshot

Obviously stack sizes are important

[ACE2M]

pr and gutshot

Obviously stack sizes are important

assuming 20% of each level stack is in PF, so Cbet commits.

[EvilPie]

Depending on how much of my stack is in the middle pretty much any pair will do.

Gut shot would be a nice cheeky bonus.

Obviously don't if there's a pair on the board cus that f**ks us up.

[ACE2M]

Depending on how much of my stack is in the middle pretty much any pair will do.

Gut shot would be a nice cheeky bonus.

Obviously don't if there's a pair on the board cus that f**ks us up.

$100 level stacks before the hand

$20 each goes in pre
if oppo Cbets pot we assume its for stacks

we get 6/4 - you happy with 1pr?

[SuuPRlim]

Depending on how much of my stack is in the middle pretty much any pair will do.

Gut shot would be a nice cheeky bonus.

Obviously don't if there's a pair on the board cus that f**ks us up.

$100 level stacks before the hand

$20 each goes in pre
if oppo Cbets pot we assume its for stacks

we get 6/4 - you happy with 1pr?

pretty impossible to say without a more specific example - but i know a lot of people stack off far too light in these spots with 1p hands and its a pretty huge leak.

but in the borderlines you gave, $100 (100bb) stacks pre-hand so assuming he is 100% pot commiting himself on the flop we need about 40% (slightly less i think)

(assume villain has AAxx 100% of the time)

HERO - 

Flop   

pretty easy stack off BD flush, bd striaght and top pair with 3 decent kickers. Still its pretty close.

Omaha Hi Simulation 
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   57.22%   342,676   1,290
   42.78%   256,034   1,290


Another example - same flop
our hand -   

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   82.65%   494,447   2,956
Ah    17.35%   102,597   2,956


Another example - same flop
our hand -   

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   64.75%   388,267   434
   35.25%   211,299   434


Basically you just wanna be super careful about a) what your calling 4bets with vs tight 4bettors, and b) exactly what your stacking off cos you can defo loose a lot of money in these hands, speshly if you're a bit deeper.

[ACE2M]

Depending on how much of my stack is in the middle pretty much any pair will do.

Gut shot would be a nice cheeky bonus.

Obviously don't if there's a pair on the board cus that f**ks us up.

$100 level stacks before the hand

$20 each goes in pre
if oppo Cbets pot we assume its for stacks

we get 6/4 - you happy with 1pr?

pretty impossible to say without a more specific example - but i know a lot of people stack off far too light in these spots with 1p hands and its a pretty huge leak.

but in the borderlines you gave, $100 (100bb) stacks pre-hand so assuming he is 100% pot commiting himself on the flop we need about 40% (slightly less i think)

(assume villain has AAxx 100% of the time)

HERO - 

Flop   

pretty easy stack off BD flush, bd striaght and top pair with 3 decent kickers. Still its pretty close.

Omaha Hi Simulation 
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   57.22%   342,676   1,290
   42.78%   256,034   1,290


Another example - same flop
our hand -   

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   82.65%   494,447   2,956
Ah    17.35%   102,597   2,956


Another example - same flop
our hand -   

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board:
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
AA**   64.75%   388,267   434
   35.25%   211,299   434


Basically you just wanna be super careful about a) what your calling 4bets with vs tight 4bettors, and b) exactly what your stacking off cos you can defo loose a lot of money in these hands, speshly if you're a bit deeper.

This is exactly where i was going, it must be losing prop over all (close to break even),  so many people do it. I suppose it could have meta value in terms of rep if you could break even, makes the swings huge as well. I've just upgraded my requirements in this spot and wanted some affirmation i suppose.

[SuuPRlim]

yh its interesting as well becuase being overly conservative in these spots can actually cost you more. once you got a 4bet invested and you flop ur equity folding is a pretty huge mistake, so I use this to justify gambling a bit wider than perhaps i should lol but hey big pots ftw

Also when you start thinking people's ranges can open up slightly (obv completely player/game flow specific) you can open up considerabley in these spots.

I think there answer really is to just make sure you're not peeling 4bets too wide because this is what's going to cause you to make mistakes, using PPT flop equity graphs    is a good way to check p/f reverse/implied odds p/f.

I just hand an interesting one actually -
  IP on a    board.

pretty much EXACT HU situation 40bb pot around 80bbs behind

What would people do there?

[ACE2M]

yh its interesting as well becuase being overly conservative in these spots can actually cost you more. once you got a 4bet invested and you flop ur equity folding is a pretty huge mistake, so I use this to justify gambling a bit wider than perhaps i should lol but hey big pots ftw

Also when you start thinking people's ranges can open up slightly (obv completely player/game flow specific) you can open up considerabley in these spots.

I think there answer really is to just make sure you're not peeling 4bets too wide because this is what's going to cause you to make mistakes, using PPT flop equity graphs    is a good way to check p/f reverse/implied odds p/f.

I just hand an interesting one actually -
  IP on a    board.

pretty much EXACT HU situation 40bb pot around 80bbs behind

What would people do there?

Immediate view you think get it in and roll the dice but even against naked aces i bet you're 30-35% at best. Good disciplined fold required.

[GreekStein]

It's too general of a question to give an answer to.

People generally play MUCH worse with Aces though, than they do vs Aces. (Most common mistake is turning them face up and 3-betting them OOP too deep stacked when it's just exploitable).

Yday night I open button to £3.50 with 7910J one suit, guy in SB calls and BB snap pots. I call. Flop 7810 and he snap pots for £40 with AAQ3 no suits and doesn't pass when I ship it either.

Generally my requirement is a pair + live cards if the pot is 4-bet.